World Wide Web Fights presents

WWWF Logo by Dan Willis

The Setting

The playground. 2:00 pm. 99 sixth-graders scramble outside for recess. A small fire starts in the cafeteria and all the teachers, unaware it was a planned diversion, run in to help. Meanwhile, back in the schoolyard... a bull terrier struggles in through the gate from the street, dragging in his teeth the handle to a wagon full of ice-cold Bud Light. He lets the wagon come to a stop, he shifts around inside his Hawaiian shirt, and turns to the crowd of children and wags his tongue invitingly at them.

But today, the dog's got some competition. From the other side of the playground, a tall, cool, swinging fellow in a trenchcoat slides his way into view. He peers out one corner of his shades, and then out the other, making sure there are no teachers in sight, and then he opens up his coat, the inside of which is lined with packs upon packs of a wide variety of cigarettes and complimentary Zippo (tm) lighters.

The end-of-recess bell will ring in twenty minutes. Just enough time for a youngster to work down their first beer... OR to have their first cigarette (including the time spent coughing). But no kid can have both. Two advertising legends of the sin industry stand opposite one another, prepared to fight to the death for this fresh new market, and with an odd number of kids and since no child will be able to resist, there can be no tie.

So, Steve, who wins in the battle to corrupt America's youth?

Joe Camel, Camel Cigarettes Spokescamel Spuds MacKenzie, Bud Light Party Dog

Joe Camel


Spuds MacKenzie

The Commentary

STEVE: I have to go with Joe Camel on this one. Premise: Sixth graders, just beginning their journey through adolescence, are obsessed with image. Now who do they want to be like? An ugly drunken mutt or sleek, cool Joe? Those cigarettes make him look Alive with Pleasure (tm)! All the guys (who all want to be cool) are definitely going for Joe. And if all the guys are there, then you can bet the girls will be there too. In addition, the tobacco companies are getting desperate these days -- smoking is not as popular as it used to be. In order to entice the youngsters, you can bet the tobacco companies have given Joe plenty of free Camel T-Shirts (tm), Camel Hats (tm), and Camel Cash (tm) to give away. The sixth graders, having no real money of their own, will be unable to resist.

I really have trouble understanding how Spuds is going to entice them to drink his beer. Most kids don't even like the taste of beer, but that's understandable considering it's Bud Light. Kids have also been trained since early childhood to stay away from strange dogs. In addition, they will also confuse the beer foam on his mouth with rabid foam, and run scared. Spuds will only be stopped when the humane society comes and puts Spuds "out of his misery".

BRIAN: Well, that's just a brilliant observation, Steve. "Kids have also been stay away from strange dogs." They are trained that way, because it's in their nature to want to go up and play with and pet strange dogs. With no authoritarians in sight, they will revert to their instincts and flock to Spuds. And what else is in their nature? What do they NOT have to be "trained" to do? To stay away from strange CAMELS! Hello?! You claim that they would be leery of a strange dog but would gladly approach a strange CAMEL?! I don't think so.

Clearly, none of the girls will go to Joe. Girls aren't obsessed with coolness until the ninth grade, so they will do only what they truly want to do. And considering most sixth grade girls scream at the sight of a cockroach, I really don't think they'd be able to handle something as large and as smelly as a camel. Thus, 49 of the students are instantly Spuds' (it could even be more than that, but for the sake of argument...). So he only needs to lure ONE boy to his side. Undoubtedly, there will be some brave boys (who, in sixth grade, are almost at the peak of cool seeking) who will go to Joe's side, but there are too many Martin Prince's and George McFly's that will be intimidated and want to go pet the puppy instead. Spuds wins 61-33.

STEVE: All of the girls are avoiding Joe? I don't think so. Not when he reminds them of their teenage hunks featured in Levis commercials with his jeans and ice-cold demeanor. True, he may be a camel, but most of his camel physique is hidden by clothing.

In addition, the girls are not going to Spuds because they're not "his type." We all know that Spuds only attracts blonde, chesty women in bikinis. I seriously doubt any of the school children fall into that category. Therefore Spuds will remain alone. Along these same lines, I leave you with the following quote:
"I don't understand the appeal of Spuds MacKenzie. He's always surrounded by beautiful women. Now, I'm single, and I know the pickin's can be mighty slim, but you have to be really desperate to date out of your own species." -Susan Norfleet

BRIAN: OH! WELL! I guess I stand corrected!! The mighty Susan Norfleet has spoken. Let us all bow down to the overpowering knowledge of the all-seeing-and-doing Susan Norfleet! Hey, Steve! Who the F*** is Susan Norfleet?! If you're going to quote a woman on this, make it somebody a little more well known and respected, like Margaret Thatcher. Or Cyndi Lauper. Or Victoria Claflin Woodhull.

Regardless of who said it, however, the quote is completely irrelevant. Spuds does not simply attract buxom blondes - those are just the only ones we see on the commercials. What's wrong with these women, with their bleached hair and artificially enhanced measurements? They're physically self-conscious and sexually immature. THAT is why they flock to Spuds. Who, Steve, is more physically self-conscious and sexually immature than six-grade girls? No one! Let's talk raging and confusing hormones, Steve. By some unseen force, these girls will be mysteriously drawn to Spuds, like moth to flame. Like white on rice. Like Roseanne to buffet.

Thus, with all of the girls flocking to Spuds and fleeing the intimidating Joe, victory is a lock for the Panting One when a handful of wussboys cross over to the Foamy Side of The Force (tm).

The Results

Joe Camel (572)


Spuds MacKenzie (403)

Even Elian loves Joe Camel

Current Match | Related & Similar Matches
History Section | Tell a friend about this match

Voter Comments


INTRODUCTION: After Spuds and Mr. Camel enter the schoolyard, NOTHING HAPPENS. Sixth graders are easily confused, especially when presented with a dog, a personified camel, controlled substances and a cafeteria fire. Under these conditions, the two are forced to persuade the students to try their wares.

ACT 1: Spuds starts his sales pitch on the value of beer but his entire speech comes out as "WOOF! WOOF!" since he's a real dog. Joe Camel, without any of his free stuff (with his lungs, he can't run twenty feet much less carry a box and he doesn't have an entourage), goes for the direct approach, lights up a cigarette and coolly states "Hey, do you want a cig... *COUGH* *COUGH* *DRY HEAVE* *COUGH* (etc.)" Joe attracts the eight future convicts, who already smoke, and the sole pyromaniac, who wants the lighter. Spuds scores three currently sober druggies who consider booze a much better high than nicotine and two others who think Bud Light is actually Jolt Cola. SCORE: Joe 9, Spuds 5.

ACT 2: Spuds realizes he is not communicating so he decides to write his message on a sign, Wile E. Coyote style. Unfortunately, the sign says "WOOF! WOOF!" with a stick figure of a man drinking a beer. He still manages to capture three stoned druggies that think the stick figure told them to drink and two non-English speaking students that recognize the picture. After coughing for five minutes, Joe Camel uses his electronic voicebox, like they give cancer patients, to communicate. He grabs three nerds the will do anything to look at the device and fourteen movie fans that think it is the coolest thing since ID4. SCORE: Joe 27, Spuds 10.

ACT 3: Spuds grabs one of his blonde bikini bimbos and has her translate for him. Using her best delivery, she blurts "Bud Light makes you popular with, like, the opposite sex, hee hee hee." The move works as twelve boys who watch the Playboy Channel when their fathers forget to scramble it, ten girls with self-images lower than dirt and the class "de-virginizer" run to his side. However, six of the less mature boys scream "COOTIES!" and seven future feminists disgusted with the sexism light up in response. Joe also attracts five lovesick girls just for "looking cool." SCORE: Joe 45, Spuds 33.

ACT 4: As the low tolerance barfing twelve-year-olds chase away any chance of victory, the desperate Spuds has his bodyguards start forcing beer down the kids' throats. After manhandling nine sixth graders, the tenth pulls out a gun, wets himself and blows the dog away. Meanwhile, Joe goes into a coughing fit and spits up a lung, driving the remaining children away except for the class weirdo. FINAL SCORE: Joe 46, Spuds 42.

DENOUEMENT: As the two competitors lay dying, the sixth graders scatter. Thoroughly traumatized by the events, all ninety-nine students swear never to smoke or drink again. Spuds MacKenzie's body is stuffed and placed above the Beer Museum fireplace next to three frogs and an ant farm. Ironically, the victorious Joe Camel is cremated and accidently sold as chewing tobacco.

- Paul Golba

ROTW (tm) Silver Medal Winner (tm)

Boy, this was a tough one. I thought about this for a long time without coming up with a motive that would favour one side or another. But then I said to myself, "What would Susan Norfleet have done in this situation?", and the answer became as clear as day: get trampled underfoot by me and my biker buddies in a mad rush to get to where free beer and smokes are being handed out.

Neither side wins, because all the kids are turned into roadkill by the converted.

- Thinkmaster General

ROTW (tm) Bronze Medal Winner (tm)

First of all, as a mother of a 4.5 year old, I find this match particularily revolting.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I believe more kids will be attracted to Joe Camel, not for his product, but for the freebie - those wonderful Zippo lighters. Long after the sensation of the cigarette has worn off the kids still have another fabulous toy to play with. And one the kids can inflict even *more* damage with! If they went for the beer all they would have is a nasty hangover and visions of a dog in a Parrothead(tm) shirt.

All this thinking of children being tempted with this unhealthy garbage has really gotten me all I need to unwind with a beer and a cigarette! Thanks guys!!!!

- Maggie

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the obvious phallic nature of Joe Camel. Look at his face very closely. Do you see it?

Joe's persona has been devilishly constructed to appeal to youngsters, especially teenage girls, who will not be aware of the subtle subconscious influence he exerts.

Spuds, on the other hand, is just a one-eyed drunken mutt.

Joe wins in a rout.

- Rick

Just the facts, man. Girls are obsessed with coolness in sixth grade and younger. Joe Camel's appeal has been steady for 50 years while Spuds was a flash in the pan. Being passe, he scores zero cool points. Boys know that smoking Camels gives you a deeper voice, attracting said females. Coolsville, Daddio. And who wants their first beer to be a Bud Light? That's like your first sight of a naked woman being your grandma! Enough to scare you away for life! They'd want Old Style (tm) or Mickey's (tm) or hell, even regular Bud. The Camel Cash could come in handy when it's time to pay for college.


I think that Joe's unmitigated cool, and his long phallic nose is more than enough to, at least subconciously, make 'em flock to the camel. He's built like some "hunky dream date", and is giving away oral satisfaction. Plus, the cool Camel products that you could get with that Camel Cash will be a big draw. (I know you have to be 21 to order, but all you have to do is sign a name) I know I'm ranting and spouting Freudian theory, but I'm just trying to say that Joe has this one easy. I think the numbers speak for themselves. Butts have a much wider young audience than swill beer.

- Ian

&& Joe Camel in a walk. Why? I can sum up my answer for you in two words: Quentin Tarantino. The biggest pop-culutural icon in the world today. And the man who has defined "cool" for the next generation. We all know that most sixth graders form their worldview largely from what they are exposed to in the media. And what have they been exposed to lately? Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs, Shallow Grave, etc. Consider this: Joe Camel vs. Spuds MacKenzie = Jules Winfield vs. Bluto from Animal House. Now, maybe in the seventies, Bluto was considered cool, but I doubt these kids have even seen Animal House, whereas I have a friend whose twelve-year-old has seen Pulp Fiction 17 times. The choice is clear: trenchcoat, shades, and cigarette equal supercool arch-criminal, Hawaiian shirt and brewskis equal passed out, incoherent loser. No contest.

As a side note, it should be noted that by the sixth grade, most of these kids probably smoke pot already, so they won't be bothered much by coughing.

- Peace, love and soul, Rocco

Spuds will start out well, but he is destined to lose because of partisan pressure. Joe will be backed up by his cronies outside the schoolyard fence. The Marlboro man will just stand there silently with his horse, looking manly and staring silently at the schoolyard. The students will think he is a school official, and completely ignore him. The "you've come a long way, baby" woman will be standing far enough from the marlboro man to assert her independance, but close enough for him to recognize how accomplished she is at everything. The students will instantly peg her as a teacher, which guarantees she will have no effect on the outcome of the playground confrontation. In short, Joe's supporters will have no positive or negative effect on the outcome.

Spud's supporters are a more divisive lot. That red dog acts like he's too cool to care, but he wants Spuds to know what a completely worthless mutt any dog must be who would stoop to pushing panty-waist, sissy-butt, LITE beer. Spuds is afraid of getting his cute little black and white tail chewed off. His other supporters are no help. Rather than helping to prevent dissension in the ranks, they appear to be playing football. It's too bad, too, because they are hundreds of feet tall, and the kids would be bound to be impressed.

- Andy Harris

Spuds Mackenzie will win by a far bigger margin than even pro-Spuds Brian thinks. There's a simple explanation for this: Television.

The Surgeon General (TM) had convinced the FCC a long time ago that cigarette ads should be banned from TV. Because of this, there's a whole generation of kids who haven't seen a TV cigarette ad. Given how much kids watch TV, and how little they read, they'll have never seen Joe Camel, while Spuds has been on their screens (even if they were only 2 at the time).

Oh and billboards? Maybe, but most kids are staring into space, not paying attention to billboards, so can that angle!

Finally, if all else fails, keep in mind that Spuds is a terrier. Terriers are rather territorial, and since Spuds is most likely an alcoholic, the combination of territorial and alcoholic rage will drive Spuds to bite Joe's Camel off, as it were.

- Daniel L. McDonald

If you've ever been to a zoo and seen camels, you've got to admit they seriously lack for social graces. Has Joe been trained well enough to keep from hocking a loogie on some sixth grade girl? We have no idea, because we only see him in print, no action shots. He probably talks like Marge Simpson's two older sisters. However, Spuds is a somewhat ugly little dog, which seems to be the most inviting kind there is. The smell of his beer will be too much for some, but without a doubt some macho litte boy will take the first swig, and then everyone will want to be as cool as he is.

Spuds pulls his little wagon home empty, but is pulled over for weaving before he gets two blocks. Joe was last seen passing out smokes in the teachers' lounge.

- Tim Chesson

Neither of them win. It is well known that instinct will take over the animals. Spud will have a murderous pitbull rage and Joe will attempt to win over the fans of the lates childrens movie with his "humpedback of Notra Dame" impression. Joe fails due to the fact that camels spit and joe chews tobacco disgusting everyone. Who wins then? The friendly neighborhood salesman of illegal substances who is always at the corner of the urban school yard leading to years of corruption among the youth.

- Joshua Jarvis

Nominally, I'm going with Spuds. Children confronted with a cartoon character that is suddenly incarnated will certainly be scared crapless, and they'll all need a beer. You missed the most obvious battle of this contest...

2:03p.m. Joe Camel and Spuds face off, each promoting his deadly products, when...

2:04p.m. The tension of the playground is broken by the sound of tank treads and helicopter blades! It's the BATF to the rescue, with Janet Reno driving the lead M1-A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank. After a short but furious firefight, Joe Camel and Spuds are both cut down, and better than 60% of the sixth graders survive as well!

- Milton C. Johns

This contest is one of the easiest yet. You see, cigarettes are very easy to get, even for a 6th grader, and they are very easy to hide. However, beer is harder to get, and harder to hide. Therefore, the 6th graders have more experience with cigarettes and less with beer- so they will naturally flock to the beer. Besides, beer is king!

- Phil

Kickball can be a tiring sport. Nothing is more satisfying after a good workout than a cold one.

- Itodidit

I never thought I'd be reduced to explaining this sort of thing to two college guys, but...have you taken a close look at Joe Camel lately? It's *not* a camel that he resembles...Okay, here's a hint. Look at Joe C. Now look into your look at Joe look into your shorts...are we there yet? Just keep trying until the light bulb turns on--or *something* does. Anyway, the kids will not have seen too, GUYS that look like Joe Camel--at least not with that part sticking *above* the top of the trousers...every kid will be staring dumbfounded at Joe. The boys will wonder how he is managing to contort himself into this position. The girls will be wondering what he is and why they feel so compelled to look at him...or even envy him. After looking at him EVERYONE will want to smoke a cigarette. Heck, *I* need to smoke one after merely writing this....Joe Camel wins. By a head.

- JM Massi, Ph.D., Ojai, CA

i voted this way because spuds didn't get no sleep before the fight because there were three frogs outside his window all night singing that stupid budweiser song

- Tim Drover

Joe Camel, seeking an unfair advantage will bring in reinforcements to help attract the kiddies. Specifically, his good friend Bob Dole, thinking that the lure of an actual presidential canidate would be unstopable. Camel thought that having Bob say something like "Bob Dole like Camel cigarettes," would clinch his victory. Unfortunately for Joe, Dole isn't as popular as he would have hoped. In fact, Dole is so unpopular with the female population of America, that Joe would lose all of the girls in the class. Then, naturally, the boys would follow the girls, leaving Joe Camel, and Bob Dole, in utter defeat.

- Paul Gilbert

I happened to know who invented Spuds, so I couldn't wait to vote against that Joe Camel. Gee, ya think people vote in the real world like this too?

- Eric Hess, Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville

Joe's what, 6 feet tall? And Spuds about a foot and a half, if even that much. If the competition gets too rough, he can always punt that little rodent over the playgrounds fence. Plus Spuds drools, and ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT says that more kids recognize Joe Camel than Mickey Mouse. They would flock to who they know.

- Jeremy Graf

Joe will die of lung cancer milliseconds after Spuds liver gives out.

- Tom Luttkus

For one thing, Joe would win because he is more well known. Fewer people know who Spuds is. Joe appears on the back of magazines, on tee-shirts, and on every other billboard. Secondly, people have seen plenty of stupid dogs in their lifetime. They would be drawn in by the evil power of the camel.

- edward l. williams

The winner, to the surprise of all involved is.... Nobody. That's right, a tie really is possible! For one kid wavers, unable to decide between smoking and drinking...there's always someone in a group of six-graders who can't make up his mind. He waits, hesitates...the smoking crowd calls to him "Come on, be cool...join us!" He feels the temptation...he starts to go over...but the drinkers call out to him as well "Don't go to those losers! Come over here!"...Spuds chimes in with "Drinking is cool! Drinking is hip!"...Joe makes the snappy comeback of "Gas Furnace!"...then wonders why he said such an absurd comment...then he recalls the blaze he started inside the school to distract the teachers...

A look of horror comes over Joe's face as the flames reach aforementioned furnace, blowing all to kingdom come...

- Morgan Lewis

Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen, again you overlook the deciding factor and quibble over small details instead. And the issue here is simple: corporate backup. Now Spuds has the company who makes Budwieser on its side. This is, I believe, the biggest beer company in America, perhaps the world. However, it is only one company.

Now Joe, on the other hand, has the all the powers all the American tobacco companies can muster. Right now, they don't care what brand they sell the kids, they just need to get them hooked, then lure them away to other brands later (Seventh Grade-- you've come a long way, baby! Smoke 'High Juniors' for that mature taste you need). So Joey C. has the power of the entire American tobacco industry on his side, along with several billion lobbyists (I believe the William-Morris hired the population of China for their purposes), and a few ex-scientists, lured to the Dark Side of the Force[TM], who will no doubt claim that tobacco is neither addictive or carcinogenic, and in fact the only noticeable side effect of tobacco is being irrestistable to women.

While Spuds, therefore, is trying to establish his 'Party Animal' reputation, Joe and Co. will be bombarding the youths with subliminal messages, misinformation, and overt peer pressure. Woops, my mistake, they've been doing that for years-- they don't waste any time, do they? Well, maybe they'll find another tack to use. Anyway, Joe Camel and Co. in a landslide. Note, however, that the 'gateway effect' of tobacco will undoubtedly lead these children to use other addictive drugs like alcohol and caffiene.


First, what is the big difference between the advertising of Bud Light (tm) and Camel (tm) smokes? The Great American Baby-sitter (tm), TV. Sixth graders are going to flock home to cartoons that are all laced with beer commercials. Second, is the babes in the commercials. The vast majority of the boys (and a small number of girls) will want to know how grow up to attract all of Spuds' chicks while the girls (and a small number of boys) will swoon to his fun loving charms. Poor Joe will get a number off kids from the inner city and a few rich white boy wannabe hoods, but the majority will be singing to the Spuds' tune.

Additionally Steve, when was the last time you saw a sixth grade girl? These girls are hot and think they are in their prime. Child sexual behavior is at an all time high, and child abuse continues at epidemic proportions and one reason is these girls no longer look like "girls", but like women. Boys will want to play with Spuds' toys, (i.e. skateboards, surfboards, rollerblades), but the girls are looking for a Man (tm) (even if he's a she, and even if she's a dog).

Lastly, eventhough it's Bud Light, it sure "beats the taste of a Camel" (tm infringement).

The only way for Joe Camel to win will be for him to hit the high school parking lot across the street where his dapper image, and Cool sunglasses will attract a better class of rug rats. (But that is another Grudge Match)

- SSgt Kurt S. Eibell

In any fight, always bet on the pit bull. I gotta go with the sudsy dog on this one. I remember recess very well. My most distinct memory was that it was hot, dusty... and thirsty. After recess, the last thing I would want is to breathe some smoke. A wagon full of anything on ice would look good to me. So, even if I spit out my first taste of Bug Lite (tm Buttweiser Breweries), I'd still try it first.

- Xxact, Inc.

I have to go with Joe Camel on this one because he, unlike Spuds (a lesbian mut), is a Republican. And it is well known that in the '92 election the K-8 crowd favored George Bush. Besides, Democrats aren't trying to take away kids' beer, however they are moving in on their cigarettes. Sophisticated 6th graders know that when they get to high school they'll have all the free beer they can drink and more, but by that time smoking will only get them a mandatory prison sentence (to hell with the juvenile court system). On the other hand, when Elliot got drunk in E.T. he did score with that blonde chick...

- TC

No contest - Spuds is cute, Joe is COOL. There are few things more seductive to an insecure teenager than the promise of free passage to where the "in" crowd hangs out. Slick Joe will ply the youngsters with cool giveaway promotional items, and a promise of visits to "Joe's Place," that mythical nightclub where cool camel dudes in dark glasses and leather jackets play jazz music, drink beer, shoot pool and trade witty remarks with sexy, long haired and long-legged lady camels late into the evening.... Every one of them with a lit cigarette in their hand.

Very few of the schoolyard children will be able to turn down Joe's offer to partake of this attractive addiction. Anyway, they're in sixth grade - at that age they know they're never going to die....

- Jeff Langcaon

ok sixth graders were about second or third graders at the time of "Aladdin." the young elementary age group is a key target demographic for the folks at Disney (i.e. Lunchboxes, Under-roos, etc.) so "Aladdin" had a lagre influence on them. And, one of the key lines of the genie is "your very own, brand new camel..... WATCH OUT THEY SPIT!!!" This is a key phrase. Now you might be saying young boys LOVE spitting, true, but it is the second and third graders who love spitting (i should know, i was one.) NOT the sixth graders all of the children will flee from horrible "Camel Loogie of Death" point one for the Spud-meister, which i am forced to point out to all of you IS A BITCH!!! (HEY, HEY, FEMALE DOG!!! sheesh.)

- Moshe Y. Katz-Hyman

I voted for neither, as I am Australian and neither advertising image has any impact here

- Duncan Bolt

Subject: Why I Chose Spuds

I am a Spuds collector. To my left as I type this is the largest private collection of Spuds memorabilia that I know of. Glasses, mugs, steins, playing cards, lights, signs, hats, ice coolers, younameit.

I am also an Anheuser-Busch collector of back bar items and steins. The Clydesdales can whip anybody you put up.

- Jerry Firman

If you didn't know, Joe was invented in the early days of sublemenial massages. In this case what this means is that if you look real close at joe's head you realize that it looks a lot like a male sexual organ. Now of course this means that all of the sixth-grade boys will unconisally flock to Joe. Besides this fact I think that spuds is nutered meaning that any sixth grade boy knowing will stay away from spuds. Also his subleminal message will also probably work on 6th grade girls as well.

- John D. Fielder

P.S. The camel company admitted to drawing joe's head to look like that a few years ago.

Subject: Indifference 98, Vice 1

The heat of the afternoon rises from the asphalt. The two competitors take their places, girded for the onrush of prepubescent consumers who will be mobbing them any minute now.

Aaaaany minute now ...

Spuds and Joe have made a number of miscalculations. First, they went after sixth-graders at a K-6 school. There are no older children who already have the habits to bring peer pressure on the younger ones. The one boy in the class of 100 who does smoke and drink is already a disciplinary problem, and so is being kept in during recess. (His brands are Coors and Marlboro, so he doesn't count.)

Second, our quadrupedal trademarks only thought to bring their products, leaving the ancillary merchandise at their respective warehouses. (I go by the text of the challenge, not the commentators' speculations. Sorry.) Without T-shirts, posters, caps, backpacks, and the like, the magnetic pull diminishes drastically. But not totally ...

Some kids do go pat Spuds, but don't make the connection between him and the beer, since Spuds' ads are too old for most of them to remember. However, one boy, thinking ahead to the next 4th of July, does take a complimentary lighter before the recess bell sounds. Joe Camel declares victory and scoots.

- Call me Shane

I think what it really comes down to here is instant gratification. Kids today are looking for instant rewards as seen with TV. They don't want to have to wait to experience something they want it now!!! Joe camel would have them by a landslide just for that fact. Joe is going get them hooked with that first instant buzz while spuds is still waiting for the shakes to set in.

- Stick, Presbyterian College

Definitely, this is Joe Camel's fight. There's two reasons: physiological response, and reach.

First, reach. A camel is a number of times larger than a dog, in height as well as bulk -- especially a member of this small and obnoxious species. While the dog is unable to reach the camel above his knobby, cartilage-protected knees, the camel can either stamp the dog flat or kick him clear out of the quarter-mile Drug-Free Scool Zone mandated by local law.

Second, and more importantly, nicotine is a stimulant, while alcohol is a depressant (and a stomach full of Bud Light is just plain depressing). After completeing a pre-fight indulgence in their respective drug of choice, Joe Camel will undobtedly be speedier in movement and reflex, while Spuds will be sluggish and slow. In addition, the dog will be overconfident in his attacks, due to the exceptional Beer Muscles that lame suds like Bud Light inspires in white trash (like people from Southern Massachusetts and bull terriers).

- wde

I think girls would choose smokes over beer and here's why. 1) smokes don't have any calories and girls are obsessed with society's imposed version of how they should look - even in the sixth grade 2) hey - isn't the supermodel's diet made up of smokes and diet coke? smoke yourself thin is my motto! 3) beer makes you burp and finally 4) as a non beer drinking, diet coke slurping smoker (who, sigh, is not a super model) - I said so! There's my $.02 - thanks for the laughs!

- A female on Stephen Stein's account

Spuds is not the most honest fellow. He will tell the thirsty, played-out kids that the beer is soda pop. All the while, the children, upon seeing Joe flash his smokes, will be having flashbacks to when they drank from Mom or Dad's pop can only to end up with a mouthful of drenched cigarette butts. The experience of vomiting and gagging endlessly has not worn away with the years. As you know, beer is an acquired taste and Spuds will provide plenty of the cold suds. Spuds wins hands down. It was the easiest test of his corruptive abilities yet (even though he was using watered down American beer).

- Larry D.

joe camel will win -- history tells us this. lawrence of arabia don't defeat the turks on dogs did he? he didn't look anything like peter otoole, but then again who does? joe all the way. if you dont believe me just try crossing the desert on the back of a pitbull.

- Rickey J Panken

I think you are overlooking the basic taxonomic differences between the two adversaries. Spuds, despite being an overweight terrier, is a "Canis Familiarus", your basic dog. However, Joe-Bob is a *HERBIVORE*, the natural prey of all dog-types planetwide. I predict Spudmiester in three bites - maybe two if beer-pup manages to clip the camel's hamstrings.

- Mark the brewer.

With all the teachers away, Joe Camel and Spuds MacKenzie go about pushing their stuff. But just as they relax a voice shouts "HEY, YOU TWO, GET OFF SCHOOL PROPERTY!" They ignore the warning. Then a figure runs out from the school. They forgot about Principal JOE CLARK. Without a word, he takes his baseball bat, hits Joe Camel in the gut and then smashes him over the head. The Principal runs over to Spuds, kicks the dog in the belly, grabs him by the tail, and throws him into the street just in time for an eighteen wheeler to run him over. The dazed Joe Camel gets back up and weakly hits Mr. Clark in the chest. Joe just laughs as the camel collapses from a heart attack. As Mr. Clark herds the students back into the school away from the destruction, he shouts out for all to hear "DON'T MESS WITH BAT-MAN!"

- James Golba

Suddenly, as the kids watch, Joe Camel goes into a fit of coughing, retching, and vomiting up stuff. "Don't worry, kids, it's cool, that's just lung tissue." Joe says futiley as the children run away.

Meanwhile, Spuds the stud is laughing, gallivanting around, having fun. He shouts "I am in no pain! Whoopee! This Beer stuff really works! BTW, what was my name again?" The kids gather round to taste the beer and start feeling fine. And losing brain cells.

In the corner, the Devil appears, rubbing his hands, "Yes!Yes!YES! Another few corrupted kids, and I won't have to worry about Judgement Day. My agents have done well."--grinning at both the camel and the dog, deciding that after this incident is over to put them in a zoo in Nantucket somewhere.

- jfris

O.K., Joe Camel is definately going to win. And why is he going to win? Several reasons. One, he can stand on two legs, if it comes down to it, he can hoof Spuds in the head. He dresses like James Dean, and young immature girls always ALWAYS go for the bad-boy image, and thirdly, because beer is stinky. The first kid who throws up from the beer will smell like rotton eggs and scare the other kids to the smooth, rich robust flavor of a Joe Camel cigarette. Ciao, Spuds!

- Greg Page

I'm really going to have to go with Joe Camel on this one. Although I have never ridden a camel (I did fornicate with a Lebanese girl once, if this counts) I understand camels are amongst the meanest animals on the face of the earth. Camels are said to kick, bite, spit, and urinate on their foes. What can a little dog do against a camel?

- Paul Breslin

This battle pits two titans of the vile corporate seducers of our nation's morally and physically pristine youth. The problem is to keep this a fair and square battle for the souls of these youngsters. To this end, I propose that Bud and RJR appointed officials impose a ban on the presence of all of the following self-interested parties anywhere within 100 yards of this contest:

1. All academic and medical eggheads who publish endless articles decrying the devastating effects of these advertising icons, especially Joe. (Just a side note to this crew - we got your point. Move on to the next crusade.)
2. All self or otherwise proclaimed child advocates.
3. All journalists with the same slant as the above mentioned eggheads.
4. Ditto for government officials of this ilk.
5. In particular, Al Gore, who proclaimed Joe to be a bane of modern culture.
6. All law enforcement officials whose job it is to scour 100 yard radius of every school to ensure such advertising icons aren't there in the first place. If a school burns for the sake of a fair WWWF match, so be it.

Now that this contest is Spuds vs. Joe, we can concentrate of the psyche of 11 year olds and the marketing effectiveness of our two icons. First, thanks to the works of the above mentioned banned bozos, I know the following facts:

a. Joe Camel has increased RJR's under 18 market share from .5% in 1988 to almost 33% today!
b. 88% of 486 surveyed 11-12 years olds identify Spuds with Bud!
c. The typical teen begins smoking at age 14.5.
d. A kid averages their first drink at age 12.9.

The first two facts are testaments to the genius behind the marketing successes to corrupt our nation's youth. The second set of facts tip the scale towards Spuds. The kids are more inclined to go with the beer, irregardless of either Joe or Spuds. A happy cute dog makes it that much easier. The scarier camel has a face a slightly older kid will find fascinating as well as a few of the more "mature" sixth graders (see

By the way, why did the teachers need a diversion? I spent plenty of hours on a playground under teacher "supervision". I recall plenty of extra-curricular activities that resulted in blood flowing, money lost, and scarred psyches. I suspect the teachers would welcome this diversion from the daily routine.

- Dr. Joe

Don't you guys remember when Spud's did those "Know when to say when" responsible drinking ads. Camel Cigarets on the other hand makes all their employees take corperate IRRESPONSIBILITY classes. So Joe should win, unfortunately one of the kids who he gives cigarets to will be an undercover reporter from 60 minutes, thus sealing his doom.


Spuds is much cuter than Camel--and even when I was in 6th grade...I knew not to talk to or associate with creepy looking, tall greenish cartoons--especially if they were strangers (I am a girl--I listened to my parents). Number 2--Spuds is way cool, and not in that my-life-is-at-stake kind of way. Puppy Ciao for Niao.

- Maris

When MacKenzie was still hip, these kids were playing with toy trucks and Poohchie(tm) dolls. MacKenzie's talent would be better employed jacking up little old ladys to call the Psychic Friends Hotline (maybe a nice little infomercial with Eric Estrada and that "Hey, Vern" jerk). Joe wins and Spuds is left humping Ernest's leg.

- Denny

Joe Camel will be victorious. Everyone knows that Spuds is, in fact, a female playing a male, in the tradition of Lassie and other gender-bending canines. Elementary school children tend to be confused about sexuality, and will not know what to make of Spuds. They will shun him/her/it, and flock to Joe, who will provide them with soothing, comforting cancer sticks.

- Brian Rush

I have to say, guys, this is a tough one. On one hand, who wants to be associated with an ash tray. On the other hand, who wants to taste like Moose P--S?

But, in the end, its the babes that count, and who the hell wants to suck face with an ashtray? As gross as Bud Light is, it's better than the alternative. If the girls go for the puppy dog, so will the boys. Sniff, Sniff. Arff, Arff!

- golfchef

Beer is cooler than tobacco. In a survey, 66% of the 6th graders prefer beer over cigarettes, 23% say cigs, and 11% were really stoned and said marijuana.

- Bad1

Joe over Spuds in 30 seconds, it all comes down to money spent in advertizing. While the druken spuds is nowhere to be seen on TV or anywhere since the early '90s, Joe seems to more and more billbords across the country! And, while Bud is trying to make a fus about teen drinking, it doesn't neerly compare to the congressional brawl that has been going on latly. It's every sixth graders DREAM to do somthing naughty when grownups arn't around. (take my word for it, I'm one). Joe would smoke Spuds!


I just voted for Joe, but I'm having second thoughts.

Joe Camel ads are just "print" - billboards etc.

Beer ads are "print" and ACTION - TV. Kids see more TV than print mediums. They are subjected to many more beer ads than cigarette ads.

Kids are bombarded with exhortations not to smoke because of the health problems associated with tobacco use. All they hear about alcohol is "DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE"

Kids see more people drinking than smoking. Does more people mean more acceptable to a kid?

Spud's suds will snag more at first, but Joe's adictive powers will ultimately win the numbers game.

- Lawrence Sandman

I'm working from the premise that kids basically have no cash, and even the dumb ones will realize that after they've downed that Tasty Bud (tm) they will be able to cash in the empties in hopes of one day saving up for another taste of that forbidden nectar. Barring that they can still squish them into noisy metallic sandals (don't deny that you done this!)

P.S> in an ideal world, Samuel Adams would show up with a handgun to dispatch Joe, and a muzzle for Spuds, and then extol the virtues of Real Beer (tm) to America's youth.

- Chris Dahl

Sorry boys, as much as I hate to chalk one up for the cancer-producing industry, Joe is going to laugh all the way back to his iron lung (tm). The overwhelming factor will be of course: [start echo effect] THE ZIPPO EDGE (tm) [echo reverberates out] As a bonna-fide grade six alumini, those things were to kill for. (Come to think of it, I know some people who did stupid things to get them in high school too...) Spuds could be handing out cash... or pogs.. or whatever the hell the new cool fad is with those darn kids today, but he simply doesn't have the edge. Sad but true. Final outcome: Joe faster than you can flick your bic

-Brad Fox

Even though I do believe most of the girls will go to the side of the dog..I mean..wouldnt a camel thats smart enuff to stand on its hind legs and be able to smoke like every cael can do..dont you think it would be over before a second punch to the liver will be nessecary..But say if Spuds was a Boxer..I may have had to go with the boxer..naturally

- DaLastWish

Look, this is the way it is. Spuds died a year or two ago anyways, yet Joe is still going strong. Besides you never saw Spuds using any of his products in the commercials, sure there are beers all around but you never see him drinking it. Joe on the otherhand has cigarettes hanging off his lips all the time. Adding in the fact about the free Zippo lighters, that attracts the Pyro in all small children. The and most important fact is the fact that Spuds doesn't talk, Spuds does not walk upright, his fashion sense is horrendous(Hawain shirts?!?!?), and Joe has the big advantage of opposable thumbs. Spuds can bring the kids to fire water but he can't help them drink, whereas Joe with his amazing opposable thumbs can be in you face helping you to light up.

- Robert Coughler

Camel sits on dog. Dog gets crushed. End of story.

- Potsy

Joe Camel will win in the short term. Why, you may ask? Go ahead. Ask. Because sixth graders are for the most part attracted by the free stuff and because the effects of drinking are more heavily seen by people this age. True, the parents have been warning them against both, but when you see a drunk person stagger out of a bar and start a fight with someone for no apparent reason (I saw this BTW, outside of the Thin-sheet hotel I was staying at), drinking looses it's cool. Smoking will be taken up by the masses of people because you don't get drunk from smoking and you don't have the bottle-neck flu the next day. Smoking, however, is a dying past-time. Social changes, moral changes and, most recently, a court case (in which the tobbacco companies got their legal fannies handed to them) are all discouraging smokers everywhere. Patches, gums, and other medical devices are making smoking a habit that is easier to kick all the time. That's why before 40 most the now 6th graders will drop the smoking monkey from their backs (or camel, if you will) and take up a real dog of a habit, drinking. Beer will be the beverage of choice, but hard liquors shouldn't be discounted. If you aren't asking why yet, there's something wrong with you or you haven't been reading this. 1.) Their parents did it. Monkey see, monkey do. 2) Some may find out they're allergic to ciggerette smoke. 3) In kicking one habit (smoking) their bodies will look for something that'll give them that same "feelin' no pain" feeling. DRINKING! That's not to say though that all will be converts. Some may just stop smoking and take up computer programming or bomb making or something that keeps their hands busy. Of course, that not to say some might take up caffiene as the drug of choice (coffee, Coca-Cola (tm) and others). I'll have to think some more and write another letter.

PS. Should I presume the Malboro Man doesn't make an appearence? Is this his week to get chemo for his lung cancer?


There is no real issue here, you said it yourselves, Joe Camel with cigarettes PLUS COMPLIMENTARY ZIPPOS!!! What grade six boy could possible resist the allure of fire. (It was probably a grade six boy armed with a Zippo that set the diversionary fire in the first place.) No question here, the boys go to Joe. The girls are a little more split. Pyromania is not as common among you girls, but several other factors will swing them Joe's way. First, cigarettes are by far more easily concealable in pockets and backpacks, thus the chances of being caught are greatly reduced. Second, little girls will do anything they see older girls doing. They see older girls smoking...however the drinking is a little less obvious. The drinking is done indoors, at night, in the bush around a bon fire, at bars...places the little girls will not get a chance to observe.

Joe gets all the boys who are going for the James Dean thing and want the lighters, and at worst half of the girls. Joe gets it hands down. (Also, for the record, Spuds is far from a media legend - that got tired after ten minutes, Joe has been around for years.)

- Nic Morgan

If you liked this match, check out these other past matches:

Tasmanian Devil v. Paul Bunyan
Waldo v. Carmen Sandiego
Grudge Match™ does Madison Avenue™

Home | History | Suggestions | FAQ | Stats | Links
Awards | Commentators | Real Life | Fun Stuff | Studio Store

© 1996, WWWF Grudge Match; © 2000, Dragon Hamster Productions, LLC