World Wide Web Fights Presents
What is Grudge Match?
What is Grudge Match?

The Scenario

Somewhere in space -- The air of the bar is thick with pungent haze and the clamor of innumerable alien languages. A table in the back is surrounded by women of almost a dozen different species, all transfixed on the man sitting there, wearing a yellow uniform shirt and reeling off a fantastic tale.

"So there's the Enterprise, surrounded by three Romulan cruisers, and the crew thinking Spock turned traitor and killed me with the Vulcan Death Grip. But I'm really aboard one of the cruisers, alone, disguised as a Romulan. I have to sneak into the most heavily guarded compartment of the ship, steal the cloaking device, and get it back to the Enterprise, or we're finished. So I--"

Kirk's tale is interrupted by derisive laughter from a nearby table. "A likely story," says the man lounging there, his boots resting on the tabletop, a sneer on his lips. "That kind of big talk may impress people where you come from, pal, but it wouldn't last ten seconds in Mos Eisley. And it's not doing so good here, either."

Sensing the attentions of his companions wavering, Kirk rises to his feet. "And just who might you be, pal?"

The stranger sets his feet down. "Name's Han Solo. Maybe you've heard of me. I'm pretty high up in the Rebel Alliance, and I've got the fastest ship in space. I made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs with her."

"Really?" Kirk laughs. "You can't be much of a pilot, if you don't know that a parsec measures distance, not time. I wouldn't fly with you if you had the last ship out of the Neutral Zone."

Solo begins to steam. "You are insulting my piloting? Big words. You gonna back them up?"

"I just might." Kirk turns to the bevy behind him. "You ladies step back. This shouldn't take long." The rest of the bar, sensing trouble, starts moving discreetly for the exits.

So, Brendan, which hotshot space jockey wipes the floor with the other?

Han Solo, Star Wars Captain James T. Kirk, Star Trek

Han Solo vs. Captain James T. Kirk

The Commentary

BRENDAN: First things first, let's deal with the 800lb elephant in the room: the "Star Trek Must Lose" rule. Whatever validity that rule might normally have, it means nothing today. Today we are talking about Jim Kirk, and that means that faster than you can say "Kobayashi Maru" the rules are going to change. For once we will have a match that will be settled on the actual merits of the combatants involved, and that of course means that Kirk will fustigate Solo.

Let's just compare resumes here. Kirk routinely defeats gods, thumped the Klingon Empire so badly that a hundred years later it's being all but run by a bald Frenchman, and has scored with more women than Hugh Hefner and Wilt Chamberlain combined. By contrast, the toughest opponent Solo has ever defeated have been stormtroopers, he managed to get himself captured in every movie (including one memorable incident where he was captured by Ewoks and another where he had to be rescued by the same), and needed three movies to score with a single woman when the only competition for her was her brother.

And what experience does Solo have that will help him in a barroom brawl? His only notable hand to hand win was against Boba Fett and came about due to a one in a million lucky accident. Kirk whupped Khan, mano a mano, an opponent with five times his strength. He survived a Klingon prison (and learned how to fight dirty in the process). And perhaps most important, Kirk knows how to fashion makeshift weapons from whatever's handy, and this time he's not limited to just sulfur and diamonds. With the full contents of a bar to play with, Kirk should be able to bring a virtual napalm strike down on Solo.

There was a time when Solo would have known what to do when challenged to a fight. He would have just pulled out his blaster and shot Kirk. But that was a long time ago. Now we have the Special Edition Solo, the Solo that lets Greedo take the first shot, the Solo that has been Lucasfied. But it's not all bad for Solo. At least he'll be safely in intensive care by the time Kirk decides to start up with the karaoke.

SHANE: Bringing out the weapons of mass destruction early, aren't we, Brendan? Sorry, but Kirk won't last long enough to become the official vocalist of the Axis of Evil™, because it's Han who'll be fustigating him (once he looks up what that means).

First, bringing up George Lucas' delusions to attack Han is like insulting someone's mother: it's embarrassing, painful, maybe even true, but you're hitting the wrong target and just making your real opponent mad. Besides, the Special Edition also showed us that Solo can literally walk all over Jabba the Hutt, and all Jabba has to say about it is, "Han, my boy, you're the best." Han's a man who orders around a well-armed seven-foot Wookiee and makes him like it. Han shoots carnivorous monsters while legally blind. And Han has never, ever used a stun setting.

Sure, he's been captured a couple of times, but only when saddled with C-3PO, an albatross around anyone's neck as I learned. A quick count of Star Trek episodes shows that Captain Kirk has been captured no less than thirty-three times, and the Enterprise hijacked seventeen times on top of that. Kirk's been waylaid by Klingons, Romulans, Romans, Greeks, Nazis, gangsters, hippies(!), multicolored brains in a Pop-o-Matic™ bubble, and not once but twice by children! I'm surprised Kirk hasn't already been tied up by his lovely companions (but that's another matter...)

Speaking of which, Kirk's never been able to hold onto a woman for more than one episode. Han, your erroneous claim notwithstanding, was getting hot and heavy with Leia in Empire -- and do you know how long it takes to travel between star systems going slower than light? He had Leia where he wanted her for months, if not years. Suuuuuure the hyperdrive wasn't working.

Han is too tough, and too smooth, for Kirk to handle.

BRENDAN: Sorry Shane, but you are seriously overestimating Han's cleverness. Remember that this is the man who couldn't figure out that when the Empire only sends 4 Tie fighters after you out of the thousands the Death Star carries, that they want you to escape.

But let's say somehow that Han really did fake the hyperdrive not working to get some time alone with Leia. Not a bad plan necessarily, but clearly the execution was botched. Months alone in deep space (during which he somehow completely fails to notice that Boba Fett is following him), where he is literally the only man there, where he looks like Harrison Ford, and with a girl so desperate that she deep throated her own brother, and still all the chump gets is a single kiss. If Han fights as poorly as he romances then the red-shirted ensigns could take him.

But what really gives this one to Kirk is pride. Kirk has it, Solo doesn't, and since they are fighting for pride, that means Kirk is going to win. Need proof? Just look at how the two treated their respective ships. Kirk blew the Enterprise up rather than let it fall to the enemy. Because he had pride! Solo handed over the keys to the Millennium Falcon to the guy who froze him in carbonite. He didn't shoot Lando, or at least sic Chewie on him if Han was too much of a wuss to take Lando himself. Rather, he let the guy have his ship, because he had no pride (which isn't surprising from a man who would have been Ewok barbecue if 3PO hadn't bailed him out.)

Solo may manage to rip Kirk's shirt but when Kirk strikes back there won't be enough left of Solo to fill a carbonite ice cube.

SHANE: Oh, my turn again? Sorry, I was just looking up 'fustigate': vt., to criticize severely. Oooh, I bet Han is quaking, knowing that Kirk is threatening to give him a talking-to! That may work when Kirk's arguing computers into suicide, but it's no help here. Besides, in such a dramatic moment, Kirk will be more prone than usual to those long... slow... pauses... we know... so well... giving Han more time to shoot him while muttering "Boring conversation, anyway."

Now to tie up the loose ends of your other mistakes. One, Luke bailed Han out of the Ewok cookout, not 3PO. (Geez, Brendan, have you even seen any of the Star Wars films?) Two, Han got several kisses from Leia in Empire, and we only saw that little because Lucas had to keep the movie 'PG' for his young fanbase. The world wasn't ready for Star Wars pornography -- and still isn't -- but Han was more than able to deliver. (I leave it to your deviant imagination to come up with Han Solo's adult-movie name.)

Lastly, Han's plainly familiar with this establishment. No doubt he's already bribed the bar band to make sure they don't play anything remotely related to Star Trek action music. Without his fighting music backing him up, we all know Kirk is helpless. (They'll probably play that flute-and-strings love theme, just to further debilitate him.) Once Han's through with him, Kirk will look like that 800-pound elephant you mentioned (and isn't that small for an elephant?) trampled him. As for his female entourage... well, I bet Han's always wanted a harem like Jabba's.

Cue the wakka-chikka music! (And get the kids outta the room!)

Thanks to the many people that suggested this or a similar match.

Related links for further research

TheForce.Net -- "Your daily dose of Star Wars." The top SW fan site on the web! Just about everything you could want: news, rumors, multimedia, discussions, and more. There's also the recently updated Humor Section, headed-up by one of our most high profile fans, Chris "Jedi" Knight.

The Results

Han Solo, Star Wars

Han Solo (6177 - 74.0%)


Captain James T. Kirk, Star Trek

Captain Kirk (2168 - 26.0%)

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Voter Comments


Before you get to all the wise-ass comments about William Shatner's acting, let me point out that before Star Trek, Shatner was a highly respected actor on the Broadway stage. Not in musicals (thank god), but in a hit play called The World of Suzy Wong. I should know this because during the run of that play, a friend of my mother's confronted Shatner at the stage door and gushed: "Oh, Mr. Shatner, did you know my Mom and your Mom are in the same Hadassah group back in Montreal?" (She didn't get an autograph.) Now, Broadway was a competitive place in this era. Shatner ran a play for two years at a time when the competition included The Sound of Music, Ethel Merman in Gypsy, and that Franklin Roosevelt play that Krusty the Klown tried to revive. Harrison Ford, on the other hand, has no Broadway experience that I know of. A problem, because any conflict between an older, established hero (Kirk) and a young, cocky upstart (Han) must operate in the shadow of the original version of this conflict: Annie Get Your Gun, the story of a conflict between oldest established sharpshooter Frank Butler and young, cocky upstart Annie Oakley. You know where this is going. Kirk knows where this is going. But how will Han, er, Han-dle himself when he's required to participate in the Big Production Number(tm)?

HAN: Anything you can do, I can do better,
I can do anything better than you.
KIRK: No you can't.
HAN: Yes, I can.
KIRK: But I'm Kirk!
HAN: But I'm Han!
KIRK: I don't care.
HAN: I've got strength, I've got hair!

KIRK: Any gal you can do, I can do double,
Double the fun with less trouble than you.
HAN: Yvonne Craig?
KIRK: Kathie Brown!
HAN: France Nuyen?
KIRK: They fall down.
HAN: No, they can't!
KIRK: Yes, they can, yes, they can!

HAN: I can shoot a laser,
Not a wimpy phaser.
KIRK: Shooting can be boring;
I'm too busy scoring.
HAN: I bagged Carrie Fisher once -
KIRK: Was she taking coke?
HAN: Yes.
KIRK: Kid, you're a joke.

HAN: Anything I can do, you can do better,
You get the chicks, I get nix, it's all true.
KIRK: Now you've learned.
HAN: Let's not fight.
KIRK: You need help.
HAN: You're so right!
KIRK: If you work, work, work,
HAN: I can score like Kirk!
KIRK & HAN: Yes, I/you caaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!

So you see the importance of Broadway experience, because if only Han had been on Broadway... uh... what I mean to say is, the point of that long song parody was... er... aw, heck, can I go back and write a parody of a song from My Fair Lady instead?

- Captain Corcoran

Silver Grudgie ROTW Silver Medal GrudgieTM

When the match is over...

31 Bottles from the bar smashed over an opponent's head.
14 Overturned tables.
3 Barflies killed in the battle. (One of them only has 1 arm for some reason...)
20,430 Pointless reader responses that mention Star Wars: Episode II.
1,256,935 Pointless reader responses that discuss the "Star Trek Can't Win" theorem in detail.
1 Toupee that comes off in the scuffle, which is later sold by a bounty hunter as Kirk's "scalp".
15 Minutes that the fight transpires.
5 Failed time-travel attempts from the new series "Enterprise" as the crew tries to save James T. Kirk from death, which leaves the ship crashing into the sun.
9 Random objects that float around the room as Luke SkyWhiner attempts to help Han out with the force, long-distance.
1 Second that is necessary to prove that a polyester uniform has less flexibility than a 15-day-old bagel.
1 Right hook across Kirk's jaw.

Finally seeing the Starfleet captain lose in a fistfight with a REAL competitor, WITHOUT getting his shirt torn?


- The Mad Josher

Bronze Grudgie ROTW Bronze Medal GrudgieTM

What the hell's the point? If Kirk kills Solo, then ILM will recreate it digitally so Solo wins. If Solo kills Kirk, then a Star Trek novel will come out a year later resurrecting him and giving him a new ship to command. It's a revisionist fanboy paradox.

- Kilgore Trout

All we need to determine the winner of this match is some simple math. First, we need to define our combatants. Kirk will be designated "K" and Han, "H". Kirk is the leader of the redshirts ("R"), therefore K>R.

As proven by previous Grudge Match history, the Stormtroopers ("S") defeated the Redshirts, so we can also conclude S>R.

Han Solo is the enemy of the Stormtroopers, and helps to defeat them by the end of the Star Wars Trilogy, therefore H>-S (since Han is the Stormtroopers' enemy, he must carry the stipulation of an inverse relationship, hence the negative sign).

So, we have the following: K>R, S>R, H>-S. By adding these equasions together, we can determine that K+S+H>R+R+-S. In order to simplify the equasion, we add S to both sides, resulting in: K+2S+H>2R.

Kirk and Han cannot be on the same side in this match, so in order to simplify again, we add -K to both sides (also putting Kirk with the Redshirts, whom he commands), resulting in: 2S+H>2R+-K.

Since we need to know the results of Kirk's ("K") battle, not Kirk's enemy's ("-K") battle, we multiply the right side of the equasion by - 1 and reverse the "greater than" sign, resulting in: 2S+H<-2R+K. Since we all know that the Redshirts' enemies are the Stormtroopers (once again, from Grudge Match history), the equasion can once again be re-written as: 2S+H<2S+K.

Take away the Stormtroopers from both sides of the equation, and we result in: H - Dr. Grand Moff McCoy

It appears Grudge match gets some perverse pleasure from watching Star Wars stomp Star Trek into the dirt and are setting Kirk up for a fall. But what kind of combatant is Han? Let's take a look at his biggest contribution to each film:

Star Wars: Sucker-punched Darth Vader ("Join in at the last second and take credit for the victory!")
Between Star Wars and Empire: Broke the Falcon's hyperdrive and "ran into a bounty hunter on Ord Mantell."
Empire Strikes Back: Escaped from the Star Destroyer, which didn't help since Boba Fett caught him anyway.
Between Empire and Jedi: One word: carbonite
Return of the Jedi: After two-and-a-half movies, managed to not act like a dick toward Princess Leia; touching, but I don't see how it affects this match.

So we can see that Han's accomplishments are greatly inflated in his own mind as well as the minds of the innumerable fanboys who will inevitably vote him to victory.

- Canus Shamus

Kirk. Easy. He had a fistfight every week for... how long? Two years? I can't think of a single Han Solo fistfight.

- Galahad

Han Solo, no question. Look at it this way: which character is the most crucial to the success of their respective franchises? There have been five Star Trek series on television to date. Only one of these series has starred Cap'n Kirk. Only one of them was cancelled due to poor ratings. Coincidence? I think not.

Contrast this with Star Wars. First three movies were pretty good. Jedi was a little weak, but it had that kick-ass space battle around the second Death Star to make up for it. Then we get the two prequels, which reek like Tauntaun guts. Why? What's missing in these two movies that the first had? I'll tell you: HAN SOLO. Every other freaking character in the first three movies has either appeared or been refered to in the prequels, except Han. Clearly, the defining coolness of Star Wars was Han Solo.
Or possibly the Wookies.


So here's the deal - this isn't about whether or not Kirk can mess up Solo, but whether Solo has a preternatural ability to lose.

Come on, think about it - did Kirk really ever win against anyone single-handedly? The only time I can remember Kirk truly going mano e mano without his Trek posse to back him up in any way was in that cross-over flick, where poor Malcolm McDowell had to act all scared when fat, lumbering Shatner showed up to kick his ass. (Where's McDowell's Oscar, damn it?) And what happened there? He died.

So I'm thinking it's not so much about Kirk winning as Solo losing, which he's pretty good at. Most of the Star Wars films consist of him failing, whining, or both until R2D2 bails them all out. Solo's even named after a doomed character: Mr. Solo in Goldfinger, who gets shot and crushed by Odd-Job. So his odds ain't good.

However George Lucas is really just a B-movie rip-off artist, and much of Star Wars is stolen from Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress, where the Han Solo-ish character is played by Toshiro Mifune, king of the bad-asses. And a big chunk of Solo's Empire Strikes Back dialogue is lifted from Rhett Butler.

That's two layers of teflon-coated coolness that can't freakin' lose.

He also has two weapons at his disposal (banned by the Geneva Convention, I think) Kirk can't counter:

1. Chewie's terrifyingly ugly family ("they all mean so much to him" he tells them, and hugs them often, even though Wookies look like they smell), and

2. Freakin' Lucas can go back after the fact and digitally ruin...I mean, so it looks like Han won.

- Special Guest Star Bea Arthur

"Oh really!? So THAT'S what you think!? Well, nobody insults Han Solo's piloteeing... AND LIVES!" screams Solo, while he grabs his trusty blaster "Well... prepare... to... meet... your... doom,... 'cause... today... is... a... good... day... to... die!" equally rants Kirk, forcing his lips as he grabs his trademark phaser. Suddenly, a loud CRASH can be heard,and in there comes the dreadest of the demons, the harvester of souls, the unmercifully spirit, the Devil's true female form... Natalie Portman!

"What the f**ck is going on in here!?" 'she' rants, with a thundering voice that could make a Bantha shiver.

"We... come... in... peace... (...shoot... to... kill...)" says Kirk, while letting go a little smile.

"Huh? Do I know ya, swetie?" adds Solo with a glancing look.

"Listen, you stay outta this, muthaf**cker! You can even get a good job on that Miami Vice rip-off! And you, Harrison, you a**hole, you can't fight ANYONE to death! You have to stay in good shape for the part of Uatusro Solo, Han's fat and drunk father! And, anyway, hand-to-hand fighting is mean and wrong! If you're gonna fight, do it with ludicrous, overrated weapons made by choppy CGI efects, and with sugar-coated comic relief companions!"

Natalie drags Han from the ear outta the bar, into that former beloved factory of dreams now turned into a branch of hell that we once knew as Lucasfilm LTD. Kirk wins by default.

Or not, because as he is about to be awarded the winner by judge Buckaroo Banzai, the "Star Trek Must Always Loose" rule kicks in and a passing meteor crashes into the cantina, squashing Kirk in the process "Oh God! They've killed Kirkie! They've killed Kirkie! You bastards!" says Chekov.

"Shut up! You will respect my autoritah now!" raves Spock.
"He's dead, Scott" says McCoy.
"Wella can'the you doo aniezing?" asks an embarassed Scotty.
"Damn, Scotty, I'm a doctor,not a coroner!"

- Tyler Durden(strong Lucas is with the Force,but not that strong...)

At this point, isn't including Star Trek in a match like flogging a dead horse? Enough already! Let them rest in peace!

- Rainwoman

"There is no Special Edition."
"There is no Special Edition."
"Han shot first."
"Han shot first."
"Han will shoot first again here..."
"Han will shoot first again here..."
"...before Kirk gets his fists up."
"...before Kirk gets his fists up."
"Oh... and, these aren't the tribbles you're looking for."
"Ummm... what?"

- The HeartBurn Kid, master of the Jedi Mind Fark

I will now compare these two at their greatest, worst, funniest and coolest height.

Solo, Defeats the greatest empire in the whole universe.
Kirk, saves Spock from going on a mad rampage during his "have sex once in seven years" thing, since their was no one on the Enterprise to "fulfill" Spock's missing link.

Solo, gets his ass whooped by teddy bears.
Kirk, dies.

Solo, delivers great comical relief during all 3 original star wars movies.
Kirk, tells a joke no one gets, but Scotty laughs anyways.

Solo, saves Luke from being killed who in turn blows up the death star.
Kirk, says "Warp 9."

so there you have it, Solo wins and Kirk loses, even if they both had their sidekicks with them (Chewbacca and Spock) Solo and Bacca who kick some vulcan human ass. 'nuff said.

- Brum Dawg

You guys actually think Kirk would be let into a bar wearing that tight gold number? Solo blasts Kirk, eventually.

Unless Dr Zoidberg's national anthem is playing in the background... 'cos Kirk always wins them occasions.

- Si (Footballius Hooliganus)

"I bet Han has always wanted a harem like Jabba's."

Don't you see? The girls, the slow way of speaking, the ever-growing paunch... Kirk is obviously Jabba's brother!

"Ho... ho... ho... now... you... will... die... Solo." Kirk laughs, pressing the button that drops Han into a pit. From its cage steps a shambling, growling beast.

"Good boy. Play dead." Han sneers as he fires his blaster between the creature's eyes. The monster explodes in a flurry of rubber and helium. The gas also blows open a nearby curtain, revealing a Vulcan controlling the wires to move the balloon.

"Do not kill the man behind the curtain!" Spock yells as he flees. Meanwhile, Jimmy the Hutt is laughing so much that he doesn't notice one of his groupies - the one with buns over her ears - sneaking up behind him with a chain and wrapping it around his neck.

Kirk hams it up as he never has before, bulging his eyes and wheezing pitifully, but even the worst acting in the world can't save him. As his body goes limp his last words are "T... J... Hooker..."

By now Han has climbed out of the pit. He smiles, gives Leia a peck on the cheek and stuffs a time-delay thermal detonator in Kirk's mouth. Han makes a witty comment about the monster and Kirk being "full of hot air", and runs out with Leia on his arm, pausing only to toss a few credits at the bartender and shout "Sorry in advance about the mess!"

- Oxymoron ("I Guess Lone Star Was Unavailable")

Kirk: All... right, Solo. You've... crossedtheline.
Solo: What?
Kirk: I... toldyou. You... cannotsurvive... my... wrath.
Solo: What the hell are you saying? Talk normally!
Kirk: But... I... am.......... Aren't I?
Solo: Hey, Goldenrod - You have this guy's language in your memory
C3PO: Well, my goodness, General Solo, while I am fluent in over three thousand forms of communication -
Solo: Just say you don't know.
C3PO: Well, I never!
Kirk: Hey... quit... talkingtothat... wierd... gold... thing!
Solo: Ah, screw it. (pulls blaster)
Blaster: ZAP!!
Kirk: *sizzle* *thump*
Solo: Never liked the color gold anyway.
C3PO: Oh, my!

- Tracer (and by the way, Kirk's patented Two-fisted Back Hammer(tm) doesn't do squat)

Han is destined to win, but Kirk is not the loser here, the real losers are all those alien love children who'll go hungry without "Daddy Jim" around to pay his child support.

- Don "King" Milliken

While reading through the commentary on this match, I noticed a pop- up window that I had neglected to close immediately after it opened. Switching over to it, I noticed that it was an ad for It was a sign!

At first I thought maybe it was a sign to vote for Kirk, since Shatner is the Priceline spokesperson. But then the horrible repressed memories came flooding back, nearly driving me insane, and I realized that I needed to vote to rid the galaxy of the man that played Kirk once and for all! For the love of God, please, no more of those commercials!

- Penteren

20 reasons why Kirk is better than Han Solo.

20) Han Solo has never had a successful attempt to sneak up on someone. Kirk? Standard Starfleet Procedure.
19) Kirk would never hide in an asteroid and never allow the Enterprise to be almost eaten by a large cave worm.
18) Kirk would never allow a stinkin' tractor beam to tow his ship.
17) Kirk would never allow himself to be encased in Carbonite.
16) Enterprise vs Millenium Falcon: No Contest.
15) We never saw Princess Leia in a miniskirt, did we?
14) Kirk is always able to infiltrate his enemies. Han Solo never lasted three seconds impersonating a Stormtrooper.
13) You can never lock up Kirk for very long.
12) Kirk takes matters into their own hands. Han Solo relied on an old man to help him get out of Dodge.
11) Kirk would beam Chewie into space (after all, he does resemble a tribble).
10) Kirk traveled through The Great Barrier, met God, and wasn't even impressed. Han Solo believes too much of this Force crap.
9) Kirk once fought a Greek god. And won. Han never lasted 5 seconds against Darth Vader.
8) Kirk has sex often. We still don't know if Han Solo has banged Princess Leia yet (as far as the movies are concerned).
7) Even with a wig, Kirk's hair definitely looks better than Han's Disco-esque look.
6) Kirk's name is hated throughout the galaxy. Han Solo is wanted by Jabba the Hutt as a museum piece.
5) Kirk is a resourceful, witty captain who never relies on others to get out of jams. Han Solo relies on Luke, Leia, Chewie, and even the godawful C3PO and R2D2.
4) Han Solo probably doesn't have a middle name as cool as Tiberius.
3) Three Words: Orion Slave Girls.
2) Two words: Funky Sideburns
1) Even Princess Leia would fall for Kirk. Nuff Said.

- Tahna Los

I was going to say something about how since Han has the powers of Indiana Jones and other cool people to call on, and Kirk just has Priceline commercials, Han was destined to win. But I decided that was unscientific, so I did a survey instead. The results?

All the women I asked (six plus me) agreed; we would sleep with Han Solo, but we'd rather be tortured by Ewoks then go on a date with Kirk. Han in a landslide.

- Jen

Faster than I can say Kooboyishi...
Kanga Roo?
Kobasushi Mare-you?
C'mon mouth! Work, damn you!
Keyeboyashi Moron?
Tae-boswishy Fartyou?
Constipatedfishy Targlue?


Ah screw it! Solo beats Kirk like a red-shirted, red-headed stepchild.

- Simon'sDad

Let's just hope that Han takes Kirk out before he meets Jar-Jar and does a karaoke number with him.

- Antidisestablishmentairianism

Han Solo was directed by George Lucas, who also invented the character Jar-Jar Binks. James T. Kirk was directed by Gene Roddenberry, who also invented the character Wesley Crusher.

And what upsets these heroes is who has the cooler ship? PLEASE.

- The Nestbeschmutzer, burning Barney's creator in effigy so that nobody's left out.

Kirk and Solo eye each other. Solo's hand moves slowly towards his blaster. Kirk carefully reaches behind his back for his phaser.

In a fluid motion the Corellian draws and squeezes off two blasts. Kirk drops onto the floor beneath a table. The second shot hits a Red Shirt ensign who had just re-entered the room after stepping out to relieve himself. With a look of shock and horror he crumples to the ground dead.

"My god, he's killed Kenny!" Shout three other Red Shirts running to their fallen comrade.

"Sorry, about that," says Solo. "I warned him." Striding over to bar he throws a few coins to the barman. "Here's for the mess."

As Solo exits the bar a sudden double fisted hammer blow blind sides him. He drops to the floor his world reeling. Looking up he sees Kirk standing over him. Only the edge of Kirk's tunic bears witness to Solo's blaster shot.

Kirk hunches over and strangly starts speak. "We... thepeople... oftheUnitedStatesofAmerica,... inOrdertoform.. a... more... perfectUnion... establishJustice. These... aremorethanjust... words"

Recovering from the surprise attack Solo pulls Kirk's feet out from under him and they start a rolling tumbling brawl. Somewhere in the struggle Kirk's phaser is kicked. Caught on a splinter it sets itself on overload.

Kirk and Solo stop as their fight is interupped by a sudden warning wail. With a look of horror they lunge for the phaser. But it is too late it overloads and vaporizes the whole building. There's nothing left but a smoking crater.

The wailing continues in the swirling smokey darkness.

A light penetrates the darkness. Rubbing the sleep out of his eyes Commander Adama reaches over and turns off the alarm clock. He leans back and smiles. That's one of his favorite dreams.

- Ford

[4 hrs later:
Kirk and Solo are huffing and puffing, eyeing each other malevolently. Kirk's shirt has long been gone and Solo's is just shredded enough to maintain a PG rating]
Kirk: Well... it appears that... we are... far too evenly matched... to determine this... by our fists. Let's settle this... by our... ships.
Solo: Don't make me laugh old man! My ship defeated the Death Star (TM) something you failed to do.
Kirk: Your attempt to... bluff me is... pathetic. The only time... the Falcon defeated... the Death Star(TM)... someone else was... flying it.
Solo: You are so dead!
[With that, Han Solo runs to the docking bay (leaving an enormous tab unpaid) while Kirk flips open his communicator]
Kirk: Scotty, beam me up now! (thus preserving the fact that he never actually said "Beam me up, Scotty")
[on board the Enterprise]
Kirk: [now on the bridge] Red Alert! Scotty! I need the ship at full battle-readiness right now!
Scotty: I just can't do it Captin'! If I try any harder, she's gonna blow!!!
Kirk: Gee Mr. Scott, all I wanted was the engines warmed up.
Scotty: Of course sir. Just a reflex.
Spock: Captain, at this time I must point out a logical reason that this fight is pointless allowing Dr. McCoy to insult me and you to ignore it.
Kirk: Noted and ignored.
McCoy: You green-blooded dodo-head!
Spock: Your insults seem to be more childish lately.
[meanwhile, on board the Millennium Falcon(TM)]
Solo: Wake up Chewie! We're going to teach that over-actor a thing or two!
Chewie: Growl
Solo: What do you mean I over-act too???
Chewie: Growl
Solo: I don't care about the giant slug outside! Just take off already!
[In the depths of space, the Falcon flies upward from the planet to challenge the Enterprise]
[4 hours later on board the Falcon]
Solo: Damn! They match us blow for blow. That does it, I'm through playing nice! Hey Luke! Use your force powers to send the Jar over!
[on board the Enterprise]
Kirk: Damn! They match us blow for blow. Now I'm going to have to use some pointless technobabble to defeat them.
Scotty: Captin'! I dunno how but they just sent some horribly evil creature! It calls itself Jar Jar Binks and it's protected by Idiocy Factor(TM)! All our countermeasures are failing!
Kirk: Spock! Get down there... and deal with the... threat.
Spock: Aye captain [spock leaves the bridge]
Kirk: Scotty, if they're going to send us Jar Jar we'll respond in kind, beam Wesely Crusher over!
Scotty: I can't sir, he's under a different copyright!
Kirk: But we're under the same franchise!
Spock: Forgive me for interrupting, sir. But a horde of aliens called Ewoks have just taken over the lower decks down here.
Kirk: That's the last straw! Spock, unleash the Ewoks' weights in Tribbles(TM) on that ship.
[on board the Millennium Falcon(TM)]
C-3PO: Master Solo! The enemy hit us with their own cute-furry-annoying-creatures(TM)! Most of them have mistaken Master Chewbacca as their mother and attached themselves to him! He's attempting to eat as many as he can but they're breeding too fast and he is suffering from terminal gas!
Solo: I hated to do this... R2, broadcast Episode I!
[we return to the Enterprise at this point]
Sulu: Sir, you better take a look at this...
[the main viewscreen suddenly changes to "Mesa owe you a life-debt."]
Uhura: It's broadcasting on all channels and screens. The crew on entire decks are collapsing.
Kirk: He leaves me no choice... Send them, the ODD BOMB (is too evil to risk validation with TM).
[a collective gasp echoes through the bridge. Uhura looks in horror at her captain before raising a shaky hand to press the Big-Red-Button (TM)]
[4 hours later, on board the Millennium Falcon(TM)]
Solo: Attention all rebellion ships in the area... this is the Millennium Falcon(TM). May-day! May-day! We're powerless and drifting. Star Trek: The Motion Picture(shudder TM) finished an hour ago, taking out Chewie and Luke in the process. Leia and I were briefly sustained by The Search for Spock(TM) but now as The Final Frontier(TM) begins, I fear we are done for. I mean, what kind of movie has plot holes in the opening credits??? C-3PO, who appears to be immune to the movies, is attempting to find Episode II(TM) using our satelite dish, but I'm afraid he's too late. The Federation bastards have taken over every channel, even HBO. I fear my time grows near. Though missing the Osbornes fills me with Rage(TM), even that force cannot stand against the power of the odd-numbered Treks. Whoever gets this message... avenge our deaths.
[we now return to our regularly scheduled Enterprise]
Spock: It was successful Captain.
McCoy: Damnit Jim! That weapon is just too powerful! Don't you have any mercy?
Kirk: Not when my ego is at stake. Now, reset the ODD BOMB(TM) and lay in a course for the slingshot maneuver. I wish to go back in time to teach a thing or two to a certain Steve and Brian.
To Be Continued....

- Plain, simple Garak

Han Solo went on to become Indiana Jones, Jack Ryan, Richard Kimball, and the President of the United States. Shatner went on to be TJ Hooker, the Mayor from Osmosis Jones, and the homosexual guy in Miss Congeniality. What else is there to say?

KIRK: You . . . Star Wars . . . people . . . think you're . . . so tough! I've . . . been waiting . . . a . . . long . . . time . . . for . . . this!

SOLO: Yeah, I bet you have.
SOLO: Sorry about the mess, ladies. If you'll follow me, I know a place where you can towel off

Exit SOLO with a dozen sexy green-skinned babes.

- DarthCovenant

Han and Kirk, Kirk and Han: two very charismatic captains. This match is much like the famous Twin Paradox studied by all students of special relativity. It will be decided just as the paradox is resolved: by sorting out whose frame of reference is truly inertial.

Whose universe does the fight occur in? If it's Kirk's, he'll end up with a torn shirt, a trickle of blood at the corner of his mouth, and the win. If it's Han's, the Wookiee will storm in before too much damage is done and open up a two-by-four of Whup Ass(TM), with similar results for Kirk (but without the win.)

The set up tells us Kirk is sitting in the space bar without any Trek buddies - alone (except for the requisite alien beauties). I can't remember ever seeing such a thing happen in the Star Trek episodes/movies I've watched, therefore Kirk must have travelled out of the Trek world. Thus, it follows logically that the fight occurs in the Star Wars' inertial frame of reference. I imagine Han was only sitting alone while Chewie gets drinks or visits the can, so...

I give Kirk the same odds as I give Brendan, now that Devin the Mental Hospital Escapee has "graduated".

- Alter Ego Helen Jones

Choose Your Own Adventure! Starship Captain.

Scenario 1:
You arrive at dinner. Suddenly you find yourself
in the presence of a powerful Sith Lord/Greek God.
You can:
A) Shoot him with your blaster
B) Fire on him from orbiting starship
If you chose A) the Sith Lord catches the shots in his hand
If you chose B) the Greek God promises you whatever you want

Scenario 2:
Your Hyperdrive/Warp Drive is broken. Hostile craft are trying to destroy you.
You can:
A) Call on help of Billy Dee Williams.
B) Have First Officer stick hand in warp core.
If you chose A) You are now frozen in Carbonite.
If you chose B) You escape. Also you blow up a nebula.

Scenario 3)
You are an out of work actor.
You can:
A) Star in a significant dramatic role
B) Star in a weekly cop show with Heather Locklear
If you chose A) You have now been replaced by Ben Affleck
If you chose B) You have been asked to replace Chairman Kaga

Scenario 4)
You have a lot of fans.
You can:
A) Live on a ranch with your charming wife
B) Go on tour
If you chose A) Maybe you should try that tantric thing, like Sting.
If you chose B) The convention assigns you a "special assistant".

Scenario 5:
You have some downtime scheduled. Suddenly you meet someone.
You take home:
A) the one in the "slave outfit"
B) the one in the "slave outfit"
C) the archeologist
If you choose A or B) Congratulations, Admiral.
If you chose C) Try again buddy - this isn't Jones vs. Picard

- Dave C

This match(tm) could come down to sidekicks(tm). Kirk(tm) can call on Spock(tm), but Solo(tm) can call upon Luke(tm) (or so he thinks).

Kirk(tm):I will defeat you, Solo(tm). Come, Spock(tm)!
Spock(tm) beams down(tm): What?
Kirk(tm): Kill that pilot(tm)!
Solo(tm): Oh, you think you can kill me, huh? Well, I can call upon the best Jedi(tm) in the galaxy(tm). (Whips out a communicator(tm)) Luke(tm), can you get here?
Voice on the other end of communicator(tm): Oh, Leia(tm)... oh, yeah... oh, suck it, suck it... yeah...
Han(tm) turns off the communicator(tm): Damn incestual bastard.
Before Han(tm) can call Chewbacca(tm), Spock(tm) slits Han's throat(tm) with his ear. Kirk wins.

- Blimpie

Until a list of sexual slanted lines from Star Trek begins circulating the 'net, make mine Solo.

- Monkeydog,
with fingers crossed for Jabba vs. his weight in Tribbles.

{You mean you never heard Elaan ask Kirk about "This Earth custom called spanking", or Marlena from the Mirror Universe purr about "Oiling my traps, darling"? Boy, where have you been -- Shane}

Oh, c'mon. Don't you think that holding this match now, during the opening of "Episode II: Attack of the Clones" is a little biased? Kirk winds up to take the knock-out punch on Solo, but is overwhelmed by Star Wars fanboys armed with plastic lightsabers.

- Panache

Aside from the Kobayashi Maru scenario which Brendan pointed out, there are many other instances where Kirk hasn't had to play by the rules. For example, on this very site, Kirk/Shatner won an Oscar for acting IN A TV SHOW! (Granted, it wasn't a very prestigious Oscar, and he did have to share it with Keanu Reeves, but what the heck.)If he could win a award for acting in a different medium, he can obviously rip "Star Trek must lose" to shreds.

But let's just assume that the Star Trek curse is unbreakable. Kirk can still win! How many Kirks are there? Besides normal Kirk, there's android Kirk, alternate universe Kirk, Kirk's evil half, Iman disguised as Kirk, the Kirk clones in the Game Boy game, and that's just off the top of my head. Except for the "real" Kirk, the James T. Kirks are all villains- and everyone knows that "Star Trek must lose" does not apply to bad guys (see Khan, the Borg). Given that there probably dozens of fake Kirks, and only one real one, the odds are pretty slim that the good Kirk is the one in the scenario. Han Solo's going to go down faster than the Alien Chick of the Week (TM) on the Kirkmeister.

- The Amazing Rando~!

This current match, when further compared with other Star Trek vs. Star Wars matches just proves that Trekkers are more honest than Star Wars fanboys. When you put the original Enterprise against the Death Star, even though I like Star Trek more, an honest assessment would point to the likelihood of a Death Star victory. Little did I know that this would lead to a stupid Star Trek must lose rule. Idiots. This led to Q--a being with powers just short of infinity-- being beat by Palpatine, a guy who got thrown down a tube in his own throne room by a cripple! If Star Wars fanboys were honest, they would have voted for Q. Heck, Q could've just snapped his fingers to send the Emperor to Alderaan as the Death Star was firing, or the void of deep space, or (just for kicks) right behind a Bantha that just finished eating several bean burrito chimichangas with extra peso sauce.

And now we see a similar set-up. Now, Kirk may not be the best actor in the world, but if there's anything Star Trek taught us, it's that Kirk can't be beaten in a fistfight by anyone. I even saw him take on a knife-wielding Orion pirate and win even though the pirate had surprised him.

Hey, how about we pit Luke and his one X-Wing fighter against every ship in the Federation just so we can see another mismatch lost to lying fanboys?

- Trekker that can beat any SW fanboy

Okay, I could mention the Star Trek always loses rule, but that would be boring, so I won't. HOWEVER, Kirk loses anyways, and this is why:

Kirk (and everything Star Trek) sees everything as Social Commentary.
Solo (and everything Star Wars) tends to see things as right or wrong, and you do what you have to do.
(This is why Trekkers and Warsies will never see eye to eye on anything)

So, I see the fight going like this:

Kirk: Insult me?
Solo: what's there to insult? (sneer)
Punches fly, with Kirk getting in a few good wallops, because Harrison ALWAYS gets the stuffing beat out of him in the beginning of a fight (it makes him look more handsome later when he wins).
Kirk tosses Solo across the room into a table, because in both venues, one of the brawlers ALWAYS gets tossed across the room into a table.
Kirk looks shocked at what he's done, and tries to simultaneously apologize and convince the audience that violence is wrong.
Han looks disgusted at Kirk, pulls out his blaster and shoots Kirk.
Kirk looks shocked that Solo would shoot him, much less with the weapon not on stun, and dies.
Solo: It was a stupid conversation, anyways.
On the way out, he flips the bartender a credit.
Solo: Sorry about the mess.

I could go on and point out that Kirk is too insecure to win, as evidenced by his constant worry over his ship (like the Enterprise is made out of bone china, or something), or his constant chasing and dumping of women, and his complete dependence on the Fed's rules to bale him out at the first sign of trouble, MEANWHILE, Solo's confidence is strong enough to chase one strong-headed troublesome female across the galaxy and back, under enemy fire no less, and have confidence in his ship to pilot it through asteroid belts and around the edges of black holes while being fired upon, BUT . . .

Kirk is dead (both in this story and in his, regardless of what Shatner writes)
Solo is still up and fighting

so the point is moot.

- GibsonGirl

Aha. Ahaha. Hahahahaha. 'Nuff said. But I'll say more anyway.

That old git, Kirk, vs. the man who practically single-handedly took on the Death Star's complement of stormtroopers? Methinks not! Sure, the guy had help, but from whom? A nineteen-year-old brat with too many daydreams to realize he's being shot at, his twin sister who winds up sending them down to nearly get crushed and/or eating in a garbage pit, and a cowardly Wookiee who runs off at some ugly eyeball making roaring noises. Just LOOK at the kind of hired help he uses! Yet he still manages to hold off a platoon of the Empire's lethal symbols of power with nothing but an E-11 blaster rifle. Pretty impressive stuff, I'd say.

But little ol' Kirky can't even touch down on a planet without dragging along an away team of red-shirt fodder, his excessively- logical pointy eared nincompoop, and the doctor who is apparently around to treat Kirk's senility, since he has to keep REMINDING the good captain that he's a doctor, not a whatever.

So who's better alone in a fight? Our dear General Solo has proven himself time and again against the Empire's elite in both land and air. Kirk is down in zero seconds flat.

And if we were to suppose that the two foes DID have their respective companions backing one another up, well, I'd pit Chewie, the furry epitome of rage and ferocity against Spock, the elflike personification of logical solution, any day.

P.S. By the way, Solo's comment about how he made the Kessel Run in under twelve parsecs was, in fact, a reference to distance rather than time. It's all outlined in The Han Solo Trilogy by A.C. Crispin. Feel free to E-mail me if you'd like details.

- Mark Lord of the Sith

{Shane sez: Hey, you forget one of us is a sci-fi writer. I can call Ann if I want the lowdown. (And yes, I like showing off.) But just in case anyone else needs an explanation ...}

Actually, Han WAS talking about distance when he said less than 12 parsecs. You see, when you go past a black hole, it curves space, and means you travel less distance, and besides...

Oh god, I've become a fanboy. Shoot me.

- kramertim

Well, i think if Kirk gets jittery when he has to deal with quickly reproducing large cottonballs that chirp, Han's not gonna have much trouble here. And remember that the fight is in a bar, surrounded by scantily clad women. You think he's gonna be able to concentrate very well?

- IronRose

When two guys throw down in a bar fight over who has the bigger blaster, skill and training only go so far. What really matters in such a brawl is whether a combatant is mentally prepared to beat their opponent to a bloody pulp, regardless of how much abuse they absorb in the process. When analyzing mental toughness, we need to examine what each fighter thinks about in his private moments.

Most adult males spend the majority of their waking hours thinking about sex. Some scientists believe that the average male thinks about sex once every four minutes. This figure may hold true for the average Buddhist monk, but for most males the figure is much higher.

Given this fact, we can speculate that if a man were left on a planet where any wish you had came true, they would immediately conjure up a bevy of scantily clad, nubile vixens to spend time with.

Not so with Captain Kirk. In the "Shore Leave" episode Kirk was on just such a planet, and the fantasy he lived out was beating the ever- living crap out of Finnegan, his arch-nemesis from Starfleet Academy. That's right - when given a choice between sex and fighting, Kirk chose a knock-down, drag-out bare-knuckles brawl that lasted most of the episode.

We could speculate that this choice is a result of the fact that Kirk has no sexual fantasies whatsoever because he has lived them all out already. Kirk has made it with at least one member of every species in the galaxy that has a female orifice, including one woman who was blue. The space once reserved for sex has instead been replaced by the other primal urge, beating the ever-living crap out of your fellow human being.

Han Solo, on the other hand, spends most of his fantasy time thinking about Princess Leia. In fact, I think most of it is spent thinking of her in the gold bikini from Return of the Jedi, but I'm probably revealing more about myself with that little nugget of information than about Han...

In sum, Han Solo spends most of his waking hours thinking about Leia, while Kirk spends most of his waking hours thinking about beating the crap out of fellow human beings. The choice as to who would win such a fight is obvious, though, like Finnegan, it would probably take Kirk about 45 minutes to finish off Han.

- "JustRob" Carter

Solo schmolo. I'm waiting for the Kirk vs. his weight in Tribbles match.

- Thrillhouse

If this match was a fight between the Millenium Falcon and the USS Enterprise (original NCC-1701), it would be a bit more of a tossup, but it isn't. It is a bar fight. Hand-to-hand combat. In that type of competition, the winner will be Kirk, hands down.

While a good pilot, Han Solo is notoriously weak when it comes to dealing with villains without the aid of his ship. He only defeated Jabba's henchman in "Star Wars" by a surprise shooting in the bar at Mos Eisley. In "The Empire Strikes Back", Solo is outwitted, betrayed, outmaneuvered, and captured by Boba Fett. In "Return of the Jedi" he is too blinded from being in carbonite to do much fighting on Jabba's barge, though he manages a rescue.

Kirk, on the other hand, has ample practice in hand-to-hand fighting. On a large fraction of the original series episodes, Kirk gets into fights with aliens, often larger and/or stronger than he was. He gets pretty disheveled, but in most cases, his opponent is defeated. And if that isn't enough, Kirk could always burst into song. His singing is so hideous that Solo would have no choice but to cover his ears with his hands and leave himself defenseless.

As for Chewbacca (after all, one would figure that a wookie would make a splendid ally in a fight), he won't help in this case. The reason is the man beneath the fur. Years ago, Peter Mayhew used to date Marina Sirtis (Deanna Troi on "Star Trek: The Next Generation"). Then, they broke up under angry terms and took to hurling insults at each other on talk shows and the tabloids. Not wanting to dredge up memories of this episode, Chewbacca will stay well away from anything Trek. So, he will probably be ripping the arms off hapless holo-chess players while the fight is going on.

Kirk's crew, knowing from past experience, will also stay out of the fight. McCoy and Scotty will be at the bar getting drunk while Spock will try to tell them how illogical it is.

So, what will happen is that Kirk will beat the stuffings out of Solo, but Kirk's shirt will be ripped to shreds anyway. Then, as per the "no shirt, no service" rule in the bar, Kirk will be ejected from the premises at about the time the ambulance arrives to pick Solo.

- The Demented Astronomer

A commander who wins despite troops who tend to die impaled on blades of grass gets my vote in any fight.

- Mr. Silverback- Still wants a recount of Q vs. Emperor Palpatine.

Oh, for God's sake. Indiana Jones would kick T.J. Hooker's ass.
Now, for a good fight, how about Calista Flockhart vs. Shatner's rug?

- They Call Me Marsh

Well, Han has this one in the bag. See, Kirk has that little problem of when a battle is going on, and there is a lady that he digs present, she dies. Well, this is all part of his reputation, so Kirk's current hunnies, seeing that a battle is about to ensue, realize that if it continues, they will be killed. They take matters into their own hands and whoop up on Kirk hardcore style, leaving time for Leia to storm into the bar, and drag out Han by the ear, saying he needs to get his ass out of the bar and back home with the kids where he belongs. Thank you and good night.

- A member of the Fence Post Nipples, the best band in all the land

Kirk will win, hands down.

Why, you may ask. Well, have you ever seen Arena, the episode where Kirk had to fight against an alien on a derelict desert planet? There is a scene where the monstrous alien tries to hit Kirk with a knife, and where Kirk defends himself by putting a rock between himself and the knife. However, as we very well see, this proves to be unnecessary: as the alien hits the rock with his knife, we can clearly see that Kirk's charisma has turned the weapon to harmless rubber.

So, even if Han Solo does fire first, he'll be surprised to see that his laser bullets have turned into pink fluorescent light, which will only cause Kirk to laugh before he hurls in to the final kill.

- The Great Ize

We have two distinct styles here.

If he delivers a punch like he delivers a line, James T. Kirk would seem to be at a disadvantage. His ... dramatic ... pauses ... would ... be ... the ... end ...of ... him. Solo would have plenty of time to get a couple punches in.

On the other hand, if Solo flies a fist like he flies the Millennium Falcon, Han Solo would be at the disadvantage. Kirk, even with his paused delivery, would have plenty of time to land punches when Solo uses several scans to make sure there are no objects between his shoulder and Kirk's face before sending his fist into hyperdrive.

It's too close to call, so I'll go to the sidekicks.

Mr. Spock would deem the entire fight illogical.

However, the match is over after Chewbacca notices the pelt of one of his offspring on Kirk's head.

- Mark Wentz

If Grudge Match wants to overcome "Star Trek must lose", you'll have to try something desperate, like having the Enterprise fight France. I'd still put my money on the French.

- Anonymous

So let me get this straight: we have a man who regularly kicks the snot out of alien races in hand to hand combat in every episode versus another man whose greatest on-screen claim to fisticuff fame is accidentally hitting the 'ON' switch on Boba Fett's jetpack with a stick? Thank goodness that the Star Wars fanboy base is as strong as it is, or else we might have actually seen Leia and Luke hook up after all, *ewwe*. On second thought, Kirk just may very well throw the fight and save the universe a Jabba-sized load of nausea.

- Good God.

"Mr Shatner? Mr. Ford? Sirs, allow me to hold your toupees for you whilst you tussle... "
/me runs to e-bay and exploits the two biggest fanboy cliques to support my porn habit

- Spoo Monkey

Winning bar fights is all about willpower. The bar is a treacherous place, where anything can happen, anything can be used as a weapon, bystanders can become new allies or new enemies. What it takes to win a barfight is the will to win. A person with the will to win is going to know how to fight dirty, and is going to be in perfect position to do so.

Which brings me to an examination of Han Solo's and Jim Kirk's willpower. Han Solo leaves his first movie or three, he's fighting Nazis, he's fighting the IRA, he's the gunning down Kazakhs in a 777, he's making zillions of dollars, he's on an island rocking Ellen's woman like a hurricane (who reacts by actually ceasing to be a lesbian), still cut and trim and hungry for more.

Jim Kirk leaves his first series and he's living out of the back of his pickup and doing _Pippin_ at the Paper Mill Playhouse in New Jersey. He records albums and doesn't manage to sing. He phones in every other movie with his franchise, barely bothers to show up for his last, and is so huge that his ass is airbrushed heavily in several of them. He steals his toupee rather than purchasing it. His Iron Chef USA episodes come out at excessively lazy, 9-month intervals. He has not been seen with a green woman in decades, presumably not out of lack of interest, but because of a shameful lack of anything resembling effort.

The fact of the matter is that Han wants it more, so he finds a way to win the fight. He's always wanted it more, in everything in life, from day one, whereas Kirk is too damn lazy to call the airline in order to buy tickets. Kirk gives up halfway through, gets rabbit punched, and simply resigns himself to death.

- Peter Fenzel

Commentary? Debate? Friends, Han's shot went through the table, through Kirk, and out the rear wall of the cantina ... all about ten minutes ago!

After all, Han never has time to discuss these things in a committee.

- Joel the Gosarian

As always, we must consider the scenario, in addition to "the actual merits of the combatants". This is a bar fight.

Judging from Han's comments, it's not the bar on the Mos Eisley spaceport. So Han probably doesn't have the giant rat, Walrus man or Bea Arthur to help him out (which begs the question of whether they'd even take his side). True, he does have a figurative 800lb elephant (any bigger & it wouldn't fit in the corner booth, Shane) with a proven record fighting against Star Trek. But that elephant is just a metaphor for the "Star Trek MUST lose" rule, & we all know how good Kirk is at breaking rules.

I couldn't help noticing that in the picture Han has a bloodlessly pale, disembodied hand on his arm. To my limited knowledge, the only bar in space that employs such a hand is The Old Pink Dog Bar from So Long, And Thanks for All The Fish (funny, it seemed bigger & more threatening in the book). It doesn't seem to be restraining him (at this point, anyway), but rather seems to be resting there in an encouraging fashion, as if it's siding with him.

Why would the establishment of this particular "wretched hive of scum & villainy" support Solo over Kirk? Because James T. Kirk is from the Star Trek universe, where, in the United Federation of Planets utopia, they don't use any money. I don't mean the "Republic credits" sort of non-money; I mean no money at all - No cash, travelers' checks, credit cards, food stamps, direct deposits, ...not even nice shiny pebbles. While Han may not be good at paying back his creditors (Jabba, for instance), there's a least an outside chance he'll pay his bar tab, which is more than can be said for those freeloading Federation types. Even if he has Spock & Sulu (the only members of the original Enterprise crew who were anything approaching useful in a fight), Kirk will be unable to prevail against the combined might of Solo, the unattached hand, the throat- ripping, contract killer advertising bird (per the book, another bar employee) & popular opinion (The universes' finest form of entertainment, i.e. the Grudge Match, reaches even to this neck of the any other bar patrons tempted to pick a side will know the "Star Trek" rule... & if they don't know it, I'm sure that Dumbo will be happy to pause in between knocking back drinks to enlighten them). Way to go, Han, you Wookiee hugging fool!

- Estrella - Special Thanks to Safety Monkey's canon rant

Kirk in a cake walk. I mean this is the guy who went on to become T.J. Hooker!!! Versus some guy that nobodies ever heard of who was only in some low budget sci-fi thingy that nobody ever saw. Always go with the star power.

- the flying lizard

Solo is a smuggler, dressed in decent spacer wear, that is good for camouflage, has a kick-ass weapon and has a certain level of Mentos level cool.

Kirk is a wussy captain who wears polyester, would stand out in a disco for chameleons on hard drugs, wields a weapon that looks like a futuristic vibrator, and has a negative score on the mentos level coolness.

Solo has Chewbacca for a companion, a huge, hairy alien whom Han can't have sex with, even if he were gay (which he ain't). All that time cooped up in space with an oversized teddy bear for companionship takes its toll on a man, and so he has THE RAGE(tm).

Kirk gets laid in almost every episode. He ain't an angry man, nosireebobbo.

And finally, if this is a bar fight, EVERYONE gets involved (like Mr T vs Mr Clean). Solo has most smugglers rooting for him, and Kirk has most off-duty Starfleet personnel to back him up. Which means that Solo has ex-mercenaries, and Kirk has red-shirts. Hmm, I wonder who will win...

honestly, this match is so lopsided, that you might as well pit Gabrielle against Tasha Yar... that might be marginally more interesting.

- whut?


In the afterlife, the Arabian swordsman from Raiders of the Lost Ark meets Kirk and says "that sunuvabitch shot you too?"

- Mike

If you liked this match, check out these other past matches:

Red-Shirted Ensigns v. Stormtroopers
More Star Trek Grudge Matches
More Star Wars Grudge Matches

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Next Match: 200
ETA: Monday, June 3rd, 2002

© 2002, Dragon Hamster Productions, LLC