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WWWF logo by Aaron Lindgren

G2: Grudgement Day

The Scenario

"Welcome back to the 1998 Psychiatric Olympics! We are here in delightful Honolulu for this competition of mental prowess. The sun, the sand, the ocean: Ahmad Rashad, what could be better?"

"Well, Bob Costas, dumping you and your giant ego in an active volcano sounds good about now!"

"Ha ha ha. Yes, another Olympics on NBC; another display of camaraderie between commentators."

"Yeah, whatever, Bob. Anyway, with Joyce Brothers, Dr. Laura, Jonathan Katz, and Leo Marvin having been eliminated, it is down to Bob Hartley and Frasier Crane."

"That's right, Ahmad. And we are down to the last event: the dreaded obstacle course."

"The first obstacle is called 'The Wall.' The competitors run up to the wall and try to coax the person on top safely down. Bob's jumper is Larry's brother Darryl. Frasier's jumper is Larry's other brother Darryl."

"Ahmad, the next obstacle is the lawyer slalom. Bob and Frasier must zig past each lawyer before the lawyer zags him with a malpractice suit."

"After that, Bob, our combatants enter the Scribe-Off, where they write an introduction to their next self-help book. Points will be taken off for grammatical and spelling errors."

"Finally, the two will springboard off a leather couch in an attempt to leap five feet and land over the finish line."

"Well, Bob, I saw the two warm up earlier and both had trouble jumping that distance."

"Well, it certainly promises to be thrilling. We'll be back after these messages with the final event!"

So, Brendan, which mental mender will merit the gold medal?

Bob Hartley, The Bob Newhart Show Frasier Crane, Frasier

Bob Hartley


Frasier Crane

The Commentary

BRENDAN: I hate to do it because his brother helped me win a Response of the Week Award, but I have to go against Frasier on this one. Bob Hartley all the way. Lets look at it event by event to see why.

The Wall-Bob has two huge advantages here. First of all, he's a lot more down to earth than Frasier, which means that the simple minded Daryl will at least have a chance of understanding what he says. We all know that there is no way in hell that the other Daryl is going to be able to understand anything the Harvard educated Frasier tries to say. And just as important, Larry, his brother Daryl, and his other brother Daryl are all products of Bob's imagination, which means that he should be able to make them do whatever he wants.

The Lawyer Slalom-Who do you think the lawyers are going to go after with more gusto, a semi-sucessful psychiatrist in private practice or a famous radio talk show host? Every lawyer on the field is going to want to bring down Frasier and will all charge after him, giving Bob an effortless victory in this round.

The Scribe Off-The key to this event is that speed is what counts and that guarantees a win for Bob. He'll just have to quickly jot down a few tired old cliches (which my high school english teachers all say is the mark of bad writting, but I'm sure Bob will do it anyway) and some ramblingly story about his childhood and he'll be done. As for Frasier (assuming he ever gets away from the lawyers, which is pretty doubtful) he's too much of a perfectionist for speed writting. No matter what he writes the second after its done, he'll think of something he likes better and try to change it. Bob will be back home in Chicago, by the time Frasier is satisfied with his introduction.

The Leap-Now this one could be challenging, but Frasier's years of drinking beer and sitting on his butt at Cheers will spell his doom. He's never going to be able to make the leap. Meanwhile Bob will call upon the power of the great Major Major Major Major, and use his contacts in the air force to get him airlifted across the finishing line.

Winner and still champion, Bob Hartley.

MARK: What is this: Freakin' Operation Dumbo Drop? Lemme tellya somethin'! If Bob Hartley needs to be airlifted five feet, there's no way he'd be able to make it to the couch in the first place. And I'd like to say that, in the five years since Cheers, Frasier has worked out and is in shape. I can't; he hasn't. HOWEVER, he has, on occasion, managed get by Maris' guard dogs. That takes some athletic ability. No need to airlift this boy. He just needs to imagine a couple hounds behind him and he wouldn't even need the couch for the jump. Frasier wins the leap.

Speaking of imagination. Yes, that's some imagination Bob has. It's not even powerful enough to get Darryl and Darryl to talk, much less get them down from a wall. Frasier, though, is used to quick-fix psychiatry. (NBC will love him because he's used to working around commercial breaks.) While Frasier may not be down-to-earth, he helps people of all types and he helps them quickly. As far as the simple-minded, he's helped Cliff Clavin. How much more simple-minded can you get? Frasier'll get ol' Darryl down lickity-split!

True, Frasier probably has a bit more money than Bob, but he is also of the same social status as the lawyers. He probably knows a bunch of the lawyers from all the charity balls. They would never sue someone whom they could use as a reference. Let's not forget legal penalties are paid by the insurance agencies (to a large extent), not the psychiatrists themselves. Consider Bob stapled with litigation.

You don't watch many episodes of Frasier, do you? All to often, an episode revolves around a mistake Frasier made. The (alleged) humor of the show is the intellectual slapstick of him trying to rectify the situation. Frasier will take a shortcut in the introduction: perhaps using cliches or rewriting an introduction he wrote for a previous book. He'll do it, but, after all is said and done, we'll all laugh as it eats away at him until he decides--against Martin Crane's advice to let it go--to confess to Bob. Sorry, but Frasier extends his lead here. (By the way, how does one quickly jot down a rambling story?)

The one factor that will help Frasier in all the obstacles is his stubbornness. Once motivated, he'll do everything in his power to win. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Frasier (or even Niles) kicks sand in Bob's face while the judge is turned away.

Frasier will win this race--and the Olympics--gaining his sports-minded father's enthusiastic admiration.

BRENDAN: I knew that you liberals had a twisted view of reality, but I never in my worst dreams imagined it was this bad until now. You can't honestly try to tell me that Frasier actually helped Cliff. If anything Cliff got worse each year until by the end of the show's run he was half a step away from David Berkowitz. If Cliff Claven is an example of Crane success than this match is already over. (And yes, Bob didn't exactly help Mr.Carlin much, but at least he was getting paid for all the time he spent with his resident dysfunctional)

As for Bob not having Daryl and Daryl ever talk, I can't see how that is a bad thing. Yeah, maybe Bob couldn't get them to talk, but Frasier could never get Diane and Cliff to shut up. I ask you to consider most of the people you meet in a day and if you would rather have them say more or say less, and then judge who is the best psychiatrist.

As for the lawyers, of course they are going to go after Frasier. These aren't your fancy ACLU-SPCA-NEA limousine liberal lawyers that Frasier is use to hanging around, they are lowly Lionel Hutz like trial lawyers, who want to make as big a splash as possible. And that means get the celebrity!!! Besides, given how Bob's career is essentially taking money from pathetic wretchs so desperate for human contact that they'll pay a hundred dollars an hour for the privliege, I'm sure the lawyers will see him as a kindred spirit and won't dare touch him.

And Frasier won't dare do a second rate job on his introduction. If he does so he will have to endure years of Niles taunting him with he's not a real psychiatrist. Instead he'll end up down at that coffee shop of theirs debating with his brother about if it is too pretentious to open with a quote from Shakesphere and assuring his father that he still has plenty of time to win.

Bob Hartley knows every cliche ever written, and that includes the one that will give him victory today (as well as be the title of his new book), slow and steady wins the race.

MARK: Slow and steady wins the race? And you say I have a twisted view of reality? If Bob Hartley were racing a sleepy hare, Bob might win. However, Bob is going against a hyperactive Frasier Crane who's flying high on caffeine from that coffee shop you mentioned. Slow and steady NEVER beats hyperactive and hepped.

Yes, there are a lot of people I wish would be quiet. However, I've never met an imaginary person who spoke too much. But then, I don't meet many imaginary people. (At least, I assume the people I meet aren't imaginary.) Furthermore, couldn't Bob have kept Michael and Stephanie quiet? They were also products of his dream yet they spoke continuously (and in continous alliteration). Anyway, expecting anyone to quiet Diane and Cliff is the equivalent of expecting someone to stop the sun from rising. Ain't gonna happen, Skippy. The important thing is that they didn't get any worse. As they would say on Sportscenter, you can't stop 'em; you can only hope to contain 'em. Frasier contained them. The task at hand is only to get Darryl down from the wall quickly. Frasier has spent years on his radio program helping people quickly. Frasier can do it faster.

No, these aren't your fancy ACLU-SPCA-NEA limousine liberal lawyers. They're your fancy-schmancy ACLU-SPCA-NEA limousine liberal lawyers. Even if they were Lionel Hutzes, they wouldn't be a problem. The most Hutz would put in his briefcase would be his lunch--if he could afford one. He'd probably attack Frasier with little yellow stickies (TM). Either way, Frasier extends his lead.

News flash! Niles is going to taunt Frasier no matter what Frasier does. Niles feels Frasier sold out when he accepted a radio job. Out of jealousy (as Niles admits in every fifth episode), Niles won't let him forget it. Sure, Frasier will admit remorse and later ask for Bob's forgiveness, but, as the final credits roll, we'll see Frasier illuminating the trophy case with area lights.

Finally, I haven't talked to Steve or Brian about your precious Response of the Week Award, but I read the response. My assumption is you won solely on a sympathy vote. I suggest yours be stricken from the record, and all other responses move up one award level. Unfortunately, the Grudge powers that be did not give me that authority. That aside, do you think Frasier is going to let Niles be the only WWWF victor in the family? Frasier's ego won't let him lose. This may be Frasier's only chance at a Grudgie. He's not going to let it get away. Frasier Crane: WWWF Ground Zero Champion!

Thanks to Brian Wang for suggesting this brain-bending match.

For Frasier and The Bob Newhart Show links, visit Sitcoms Online.

The Results

Frasier Crane (624 - 66%)

shrinks the head of

Bob Hartley (321 - 34%)

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Voter Comments

Gold Grudgie


After Roz introduces Larry's other brother, Darryl, Frasier won't have anything left to say after, "Darryl, I'm listening..."

- Michael Leung

Silver Grudgie

ROTW ™ Silver Medal Grudgie ™

Bob Hartley's apartment on the original "Bob Newhart Show" changed furniture like every 7 or 8 episodes. Once in a while, it was part of the plot, but usually not. These complete renovations were financed by the combined salaries of a parttime elementary school teacher and a psychiatrist with about 6 patients, and that's not even considering the bottomless red ink on Howard Borden's care and upkeep. Reaganomics aside, this COULDN'T happen. But it did.

The reason it did? Why, it's simple logic. Bob Newhart is the epicenter of alchemic ability and psionic power. He can alter matter, space or time with just a blink.... and he blinks a LOT.

The incidentals are not worth consideration, as this is not a fight in a way your bug minds can grasp. A speck with a law license? An amoeba perched up on a wall? Bob Newhart can transmute his "opponent," the Grudge Match, planetary motion, the concept of up, or anything else into whatever amuses him.

No, Frasier Crane will go the way of Marion Crane in "Psycho," Ichabod Crane, or the all-but-extinct whooping crane, and it won't be pretty. Unless Bob makes it pretty.

And you WWWF weisenheimers had just better pray you don't end up as bobbing jack-in-the-boxes in the cornfield. Fear Bob.

- The King of Tonga

Bronze Grudgie

ROTW ™ Bronze Medal Grudgie ™

I am shocked that neither of you figured Frasier's alter-ego, Kelsey Grammar (sp?) into this matchup. While Frasier is relatively restrained and slightly neurotic, Grammar is a tornado. He has totalled Dodge Vipers and walked away. He as dated many attractive women. He has (if late night talk shows are to be believed) various habits that would make Keith Richards raise an eyebrow, if Keith still had the muscle control to perform such an action. Kelsey is a one-man wrecking crew. This man is Hyde to Frasier's Jeckell, and it will be he that enters this matchup, hepped up on various performance- enhancing substances, no doubt. Poor Bob has no chance. While Bob tries to talk LBD down, Grammar will simply scale the wall and intimidate LOBD into climbing down. Happy for the first bit of excitement in the entire Olympics since the disembowelment of Dr. Lara, the Judges allow this in a controversial decision. His adrenaline now pumping at an unbelieveable rate, Grammar easily dekes around the lawyers, who then turn, shreiking with rage, toward the slower Bob Hartley. Bob doesn't even have time to scream. This will give Grammar enough time to write a fair-to-decent Forward, and even to proof-read it a few times. Meanwhile, the lawyers will have relieved Hartley of all his worldly goods and most of his bodily fluids. With Muscles like spring steel, he leaps the required five feet without the use of the spring board, winning the olympics in a record time. By the time a team of priests banish the lawyers back to their catacombs, all that is left of poor Hartley is a dried, disfigured husk, which Grammar drives over in his victory lap.

- Rick

One word, gentlemen:

Yes, Kelsey Grammer's drug problems come back to help him. The added boost lets him wipe up the floor with that other guy.

- Denis "Just say no thank you" Moskowitz

Remember, Frasier was able to negotiate a new contract and raise for the non-celebrity crew at the radio station AND score with the boss AT THE SAME TIME! Any man who can get money FROM a woman while doing the dirty deed with her has got to have major persuasive power.

You also forgot the all important Lillith factor (tm). Frasier was married to her!!! While this demonstrates that Frasier must have impared vision, it also shows that he can get past a wall of ice big enough to sink the Titanic. More power of persuasion. Plus it proves that Frasier can survive artic conditions (living with Lillith).

With all his power of persuasion, he'll have both Daryls down in 10 seconds flat. Living with Lillith will make anything those lawyers can do seem like child's play, plus it will help him in the couch jump. Just imagining Lillith is close behind him will cause him to leap to the next county, not to mention speed him through the scribe competition.

Frasier ALL THE WAY!!!

- Topcat

I have to go with Bob on this one. These two remind me of the Tortoise and the Hare (Bob being the tortoise, although Frasier and hair...oooops, hare have little in common).

Bob is the slow one who always manages to get there in the end. Frasier, however, is like the hare, always running all over and full of...himself. Besides, Bob is so slow and boring he would probably put Frasier to sleep and win "in a walk".

In the meantime, Larry and Daryl and Daryl would not be much help. They would be stopping all the time to get the Roadkill for their restaurant "Wings and things". It's hard to climb and run with a bag of bones and things on your back.

- Elbows

Frasier has the RAGE (TM), plain and simple. He lost his job, he is single, he lives with his dad, he is no longer famous. This is his last chance at fame and fortune.

And as for Darryl and the other Darryl, who would want to save their sorry ass anyway?

- Lee

Either way a Bob wins...

I went Frasier, 'cuz all he need do is call upon the deceitful trickery of his alter ego, SIDESHOW BOB!! Bum bum buuuummmm... True, Sideshow Bob isn't the most deadly villain to ever come along, but he's tricky enough to win this thing. As long as Cecil, Bart, or Lisa don't show up, that is. Meanwhile, Bob Hartley, is pulled aside to say a few words at a stranger's funeral.

- Wonka, aka Noel Schornhorst

Two words; Down Periscope

Upon being reminded of that dog, Frasier will be reduced to a quivering mass of protoplasm, whimpering about bad scripts and the undue influence that a man named Daniels, first name Jack, had upon him. Bob clears all obstacles with ease, and even gets his show renewed.

- Fred Swetland


Its time to review my relationship with WWWF Ground Zero.

I eagerly wrote my heart-ripping response to Clint vs The Duke.

I agreed to make the difficult trip into childhood nostalgia to decide if He-Man could kick Lion-O's ass.

I reluctanly tried to decipher which evil was greater: Martha Stewart's or Kathie Lee's.

I even plunged wholeheartedly into the deepest reccesses of my dorkdom to figure the winner of Data and Spock.

But this. This match will take me to a level I never want to visit.

I know there are people who sit at home and *wait* for Frasier to come on. They anticipate the tearful fits of laughter they'll enjoy at his wacky bourgois antics.... "Perhaps he'll order some kind of silly fancy coffee today! Ho-ho! Or maybe that funny little dog will show him and his hoity-toity brother up yet again! Hee-hee! Or, (dare we ask for such favor from the sitcom gods?!), maybe we'll get to see that stifling ex-wife of his, Lilith! Huzzah!"

It's time to ask myself; "am I willing to become one of Them, even for the sake of the Grudge Match?"

I may be a nerd. Nay, in fact i may *revel* in my nerdity. But gentelmen, nerdity be DAMNED, i can't allow myself to jump the fence to the pasture of "intellectual humor" or whatever it might be called. I am afraid i must abstain this time. Forgive me.

And dont call me Thursday night at 9:00, i'll be, uh... watching... um.. Tool Time. Yeah, that's the ticket..... Tool Time.

- Darth

I voted for Frasier not just because of Crane's superiority, but because BRENDAN, who supports Hartley, DISSED THE RAGE(tm) IN JOHN WAYNE VS. CLINT EASTWOOD!!!!!!!!!!! I may be a Grudge Match newbie, but by reading ALL the past Grudge Matches(tm), I learned that the RAGE(tm), TM SYMBOLS(tm), AND MENTOS-LEVEL COOLNESS ARE BETTER THAN ANY ARGUMENT!!!! BRENDAN, SINCE YOU WERE SUPPORTING THE DUKE(TM WITH A VENGANCE), YOU COULD'VE FOUND A BETTER ARGUMENT!!!!!! I AM IN THE PROCESS OF FORCE-FEEDING YOUR WEIGHT IN CHIHUAHUAS PILLS OF RAGE(tm) AND CANS OF WHOOP-ASS(tm) SO THEY CAN LAY THE SMACK DOWN ON YOU IN A FUTURE GRUDGE MATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Resistance is futile...

- Devin The Mental Hospital Escapee (1..2..Devin's Gonna Get You)

Due to name recognition, Frasier Crane is going to win over that other guy. I always go with the winning side, is why I'm alive today.

- Tricia

I really want to comment on this one, but I'm in a soccer hooligan-like waking dream state after downing 50 ounces of instant cappucino and Mountain Dew after losing a bet on Spock vs. Data. I told you the consquences weren't going to be pretty...if you'll excuse me, I have to dodge another pink flying couch with the face of Maris Crane...

- John...I mean Paul; no, Ted. Oh, OK-Chris...yeah, that's it...

How long shall the helpless hordes beg? BOTH KILLED/DESTROYED/FAILED!

I beg you to give us the chance to make them pay for their $150/minute psychobabble. I beg you. Neither of them could jump over that couch - they both would make the other one sit down and tell them about their problems.

- Steven W. Pratt

Bob's patients never get better, Frazier goes through several per episode, therefore Dayrl is off the wal first, either because Frazier talked him down, or more likely, Frazier just bored him right off the wall, sending him fleeing to the diner. Advantage Frazier

Bob is kind heated and honest, in other words Lawyer food Frazier is capable of being underhanded, and more important, has experienced. He has sucessfully evaded Maris' barking hounds, and really what is the difference between a pack of dogs and a pack of lawyers. Advantage Frazier

Frazier has written several pop psychology books already, and is so verbose he could easily fill sveral more volumes. Bob usally listens and speaks a little. That he imagined he was a self help book writing innkeeper is of no help. Advantage Frazier

The 5 foot jump. Having humiliated Bob in the first three events, Frazier will settle back in his comfy chair, with a glass of Mouton Rothchilde '39 and a selection of Mozart on the stero and let Bob have this one. Advantage Bob

- Whelk

You are forgetting the key aspect of this match. Bob can simply draw on the superhuman characteristics he learned from drawing comic books for several episodes in his brilliant, yet short-lived series, Bob. Frasier will simply become obsessed with proving intellectual superiority and bungle everything, yet again.

- Jonathan Everest

This is one of those matches that will be decided by cheating. (Come to think of it, aren't they all decided by cheating? Dick Dastardly would have a field day in the WWWF ... ) Frasier is, as noted, committed to winning at any cost, and along with his own ruthlessness, he can draw on the underhanded talents and explosives fetish of noted criminal genius Sideshow Bob Terwilliger.

"But Sideshow Bob's plans always fail!" you cry. Well, whatever state Springfield is in, it's definitely not Hawaii, which means Bart and Lisa won't be around to meddle this time. And who does Newhart have to help him? More shrinks and a burned-out comic book artist. Really impressive, I'm sure. He won't notice that the pen he's handed for the Scribe-Off is loaded with enough Semtex to turn Manhattan into a parking lot until he's clicked the little button at the top ...

Pieces of Newhart will still be raining down as Frasier accepts the medal by default. Sideshow Bob, meanwhile, slips away to spread rumors about Richard Jewell and Osman bin Laden.

- Shem

This whole competition will begin and end at the lawyer stage. Both competitors must bypass the attorneys who will be gunning for them like the American Gladiators of the legal field - regardless of their social status. Both will be served with process, even Hutz could do that simple legal task. This will put them in the grasp of an American jury. Now, the trick to avoiding the large awards which these juries are so apt to hand out is to appear to be one of their own kind.

Bob runs a simple inn in New England. He employs George, the simplest, nicest and most down to earth guy you'll find in TV land. Bob wears cordoroy for gosh sakes. He is as all american as you can get.

Frasier is a celebrity. He employs a foreign worker who may or may not have a green card (you can bet this will be an issue if his character is impeached at trial). He probably never ate fast food in his life.

In short, he has no connection with the American people. Bob is out of the hot seat and on his way to the couch while Frazier is defending his practice and person in a gigantic civil suit which is only the precursor to what the INS will have in store for him if that working visa isn't produced.

Nolo Contendre (no contest).

- Pete, Esq.

Frasier Crane would dominate Bob in this contest; his advantages of youth and fitness would allow him to escape the grubby grasp of the lawyers, as well as easily complete the Quack's Chasm (tm) Leap, and his Harvard education will allow him to churn out a flawless book intro in a mere matter of minutes. But, I say WOULD , because Frasier will never even get to display these other skills he possesses, because he just ain't never getting Larry's Other Brother Darryl off that wall. L.O.B.D. will only respond to Larry, so no amount of psychiatric pleading and "Tell me about your mother"s will do Frasier any good; fer chrissakes, L.O.B.D. even lost to Harpo Marx in "Wheel of Fortune" . While Frasier is coaxing and pleading with L.O.B.D., Bob waltzes his way to the finish line and accepts the gold medal, leaving Frasier to wallow in shame and suffer the bribes of his brother Niles, Past Grudge Winner (tm).

- Adam B.

Frasier WILL win for one simple reason: Remember how, on Newhart, Bob Newhart's character was always trying to get rid of Larry, Darryl and Darryl? Well, to the Darryl that Bob is assigned to, those moments will be remembered(after a while, though). Darryl, in a sudden surge of homicidal rage, will finally speak: "Bob, you promised that me and my brothers' parts would turn into something more than just bit parts and plot conventions only used when the writers didn't have any ideas! You lied to me!!!! DIIIIIIEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Darryl rips out Bob Hartley's lungs. Frasier wins by default. Then the commentators will get into a fight, but they knock into Darryl, who promptly tears out their lungs. Then Larry comes and gets an idea: "We could sell those lungs to Geo as airbags! Let's go!!!" Larry and the two Darryls wander off somewhere, leaving the entire audience in shock. Then Frasier's brother takes Frasier's gold medal(SIBLING RIVALRY strikes again) and runs off.

- Colonel Zippo Kanaza

Bob almost all the way. okay so he can't jump.

Remember in his latter persona he dealt with darryls weely. Talk him down will be easy.

He'll just have his two beautifl wives fend off the lawyers or turn on his puupy dog eyes. Lillth could freeze them but she'd never help out.

As for Frasier second wife -INVISIBLE....

A how to book? Need we forget Bob was Not just a innkeeper but wrote how-to books.

Bob3---Frazier 1

- wjw

There's no way you could get me to see Frasier Crane. He's absolutely weird. On the nerd scale, Crane is right up there with Bill Gates and that guy that sits next to me in class. He always seems to have so many problems of his own that he can't even concentrate on what's going on around him. Bob Hartley, on the other hand, could almost be described as a turtle-ish kind of person. Really slow, melodrome voice, depressing office furniture, has more than his share of problems with co-workers...but always, always listens to his patients, no matter how much he wants to believe that Mr. Carlson had been raped as a child.

- ~~Fire and Ice

As the competitors are probably fairly close in ability, the events will determine the winner. Fortunately, most of them obviously favour Bob Hartley.

First, The Wall.

First of all, Bob only has to coax down Darryl, who is obviously the more sensible of the two, actually being the oldest of the three brothers, and very attractive to women. On the other hand, Darryl is the youngest, most unkempt, and, you may notice, a bit overweight, so getting him down safely may be more difficult. Furthermore, Bob, in his alter-ego/dream-persona of Dick Loudon has experience with both Daryll and Daryll, whereas Frasier has never met anyone quite so inexplicable. He will probably try something as silly as asking Daryll what the problem is, then getting frustrated when he doesn't get an answer.

Second, the Lawyer Slalom.

Neither really has any particular advantage, here. Frasier is worth more to take down, but he will also have more value to keep as friend. However, Frasier also has an alter-ego, Sideshow Bob, of Simpsons fame (and an evil genius). However, this evil genius has ended up in prison numerous times, so he obviously cannot evade legal action.

Still a close match, but, with his current lead following The Wall, Bob is still in the ahead.

Third, The Scribe-Off.

Again, Bob Hartley's experiences as a innkeeper Dick Loudon will help him here. Dick made his money writing home-repair self-help books. This should help him here. Furthermore, he will use simpler words than Frasier, who will doubtless therefore mis-spell a greater number of words in his introduction.

Fourth, The Leap.

Frasier may have a slight advantage here, as you may remember that once upon a time, NBC's Frasier commercials involved him sitting on a couch in a number of different positions. However, he will be so far behind that this will not matter.

Finally, even if Frasier can miraculously coax Daryll down with some strange coffee mix, remind the lawyers about Dr Hartley's patient who was killed by a truckload of vegetables, and somehow keep his introduciton under 50 pages, he still won't have a chance, because Bob Hartley (a Korean Vet) has The Eye of the Tiger. His military training, coupled with years of frustration at living among the lunatics he associates with every day will propel him to victory, even if he must do so over Frasier's unconscious body.

- Field Marshall J A "Dusty" Sayers, O.St.D.

If Frasier could talk Lilith into bed, obviously more than once, then Darryl is going to be off that wall in a heartbeat. Think about it, have you ever tried to get a woman as uptight as Lilith on a date, let alone in the sack?? And as for the whole couch jump bit, If Frasier doesnt beat bob, I'd be shocked. Have you ever seen him blow up at Niles, there's some real potential for actual motivated movement.

- Where do they come up with this, and why do I Respond?

First, let's check the stats, as everyone in this match eventually will.

On Frasier's corner, past WWWF fighters have been (in no order) Cliff Clavin, Sam Malone, Norm, and Niles Crane. Out of these, two, Clavin and Niles, have come out on top. Meanwhile, Bob's only had one participant in an official Grudge Match, Larry's Other Brother Darryl, who was outshined by Harpo Marx on Wheel of Fortune. Advantage: Frasier.

Now to the actual contest.

THE WALL - Frasier has little to no patience with men less educated than he, and I'd imagine that he'd be even more ticked off with a less educated man that can't talk. He'd end up screaming his lungs out, causing Larry's Other Brother Darryl to plummet to his doom, while Darryl is safely um... saved from death. Round one: Bob Hurtley.

THE LAWYER "SLALOM" - Bob's not really suited for lawyer suits, due to the fact that he's from Hickville, VT, USA. Bob's naivity in this situation will be his undoing; the poor guy just barely making it out, giving Frasier time to complete...

THE SCRIBE-OFF - Frasier will win this event just because of his tremendous head start. Being the perfectionist that he is, Bob will be out of the slalom and halfway done with the intro by the time that Frasier's done. But Frasier will finish first, now making his way to...

THE JUMP - Frasier, having rarely used a psychiatrist's couch in the past, will be not the least bit uncomfortable jumping from one, while Bob will treat the couch with as much respect as possible because he knows that it represents all the hurting people in the world today. By the time Bob's ceremonial ritual is over, Frasier will have crossed the finish line. YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! Ok, I'm done...


Well this race will be decided in very simple manner.

Mr. Hartley (being the supreme genius that he is)will employ the help of Larry (yes that's right the brother who is always excluded from everything because his name is NOT Darryl). By consoling him, Mr. Hartley will be able to slip in subliminal messages that he needs to kill his OTHER brother Darryl. This allows him to obatin the "first section" of his lead at "The Wall"(tm). The rest of the race is completely down hill from there...he will dodge the lawyers with his incredible Ziging ability..but that is not how the race is won. It is won (by default) in the "Scribe-Off"(tm) when he employs the non-sequitor technique (while it may sound childish..which it does have a purpose...) It is simple he will be analyzing the acient writing of Won-Ton-Fooey...It IS as follows.

"If you are rolling down the ocean on a jetski and the the wheel falls off, does it still take the same number of pancakes to cover a doghouse?"

Being toally stuipored by this Mr. Crane attemps to reply, but do to lack of words all he mutters is "have you ever barfed-a-nargle-zous?"

Mr. Hartley laughs and mearly says "the answer is PURPLE BECAUSE ICE CREAM HAS NO BONES!"

After falling into shock Mr. Crane is forced to lie down on the couches...but unfortunately he picks the wrong one. As Mr. Hartley (attempts) to fly over the couch in the hurdle section, he trips and lands on Mr. Crane injuring himself because Mr. Crane was in the way.

Running back to the lawyer section of the race he picks up one of the lawyers with some zag left in him, and returns to file a personal injury suit against Mr. Crane for "obstruction".

This causes Mr. Crane to become financially bankrupt, and leach off his community for financial support. Causing the community's economy to plummit (so as it can maintain the lifestyle Mr. Crane is used to)..this brings down the economy of the state..and then the nation..which results in the U.S. selling Nuclear arms to third world countries, which in turn get a big head and decide to start nuking other countries for fun..which causes a GLOBAL NUCLEAR HOLOCOST...killing everybody on while Mr. Hartley won..the rest of us lost..

THANKS A LOT BUB! now because of you I'm dead, or will die..or whatever...oh who the hells cares...yeah, thats it..who cares...not I said the duck!

- -astr0naut

This is a joke. Dr. Crane is a wine-swilling, opera-listening, sexually-starved pansy compared to Dr. Hartley! Nobody takes a shot when they hear someone say, "Hi, Frasier" do they? Don't think so. Crane lives in Seattle for God's sake! The day ANY of the fancy-arse coffee swillers of the Pacific Northwest can beat good, honest beer drinkers from the City of Big Shoulders is the day we can write finis on this little sandbox I like to call America. Besides, look at the rack of fruitcakes who are going to be cheering Bob on! Sure, the man only had five patients, but they were genuine nutballs. Frasier isn't even a REAL pshrink! No office, no couch, NOTHING! He's just a polite and feminine Dr. Laura. Bob is DA MAN!

- Alan Ross

All the skill, all the talent, all the inherent freakiness(tm) of these two men, and it doesn't even matter. An outside factor, one that nobody ever suspects, will determine victory. That factor lurks in the shadows, waiting to prey on an unsuspecting Dr. Krane. He is none other than Eddie, Frasier's Pet Dog of Pestilence(tm)! Here's how the match came out....

As both competitors approach The Wall(tm)(C)(r), Frasier begins to use his charm to quickly coax down Darryl. About half-way through, Eddie leaps from the bushes and starts that annoying barking. Frasier, as well as Darryl, are forced to cover their ears, which of course leads to our imaginary buddy's demise. Since Darryl was not SAFELY brought down, Frasier loses. However, Frasier's father shows up, and convinces him to finish the match anyway, for the sake of the family name. The worst part about The Wall, was that Lionel Hutz, being attracted to the games by the large congregation of real lawyers, is now trying to sue Krane for imaginary losses and breaking lawyer-dumpster confidentiality.

Next, as Hartley cruises through the lawyers with ease, Krane is trying to catch up. But, like so many times, that annoying Eddie jets through the course, taking lawyers down left and right(well, maybe Eddie's not THAT bad if he can mutilate lawyers). Although malpractice suits may be out of the question, the lawyers have a freakin field day with Krane. That damned dog just earned him about $10 million in lawsuits and about 16 consecutive life sentences.

Well, since Frasier knows his life is virtually over, he instructs Eddie to destroy Hartley, who just finished his Scribe-Off. Unforunately for Frasier, Eddie, that bastard dog from Hell(tm), nips Hartley in the arse, propelling him the 5 feet needed to win. Well, it looks like Hartley had it pretty easily...... except for one thing....

English Olympic Soccer Hooligans(tm), drawn from the championship soccer game by Eddie's carnage, proceed to mangle both contestants in ways I can't even describe. After drunkenly peeing all over Frasier, they force him to divulge the whereabouts of the Uber-wuss, the one known as.... Niles....
Hooligans win it again, baby!

- Shaft

Just as the competition is beginning, a new entrant appears: Dr. Scratchansniff, the "p-sychiatrist"! The Three Warners (tm) didn't want to see him left out, so they made sure he could be in. And they're going to make sure he wins, thusly:

This Dr. Bob (I have NEVER heard of him before) looks like the kind of guy the Animaniacs(tm) have for lunch every day, so he's out of it. But in order to stand a chance against them, Frasier transforms into his animated alter ego, Sideshow Bob! Now he can take most of the pain and punishment (repeated rakes to the face, being drug under a car, crotch hit by big pipe) that the Warners dish out. While Frasier/S.B. is trying to coax Daryl down, the Animaniacs(tm) drive the other Daryl so crazy he jumps down and runs away! The entire competition goes this way, with the Animaniacs(tm) assisting their "special friend(!)" Scratchansiff and all of Sideshow Bob's schemes going awry.

When its over, Sideshow Bob lements, "I don't understand! My plans only fail when that insidious boy Bart Simpson is around. How could this have happened?!" The three 'Maniacs pull off their heads to reveal Bart Simpson himself! "No!" Bob cries, "It was that dreaded boy all along!" He rants on like this for hours until he's taken away and ascribed a shrink of his own. As the NBC commentators wrap things up, they pull of THEIR masks to reveal the REAL Animaniacs(tm)!

"On behalf of NBC news, this is Yakko, Wacko and Dot."
"Goodnight everybody! *mmmmmWHA!*"

- MonkeyDog

<<To the tune of "Tossed Salads & Scrambled Eggs>>
   ...with apologies to whoever wrote it

Hey baby, I see the shrinks are fightin, Bob Hartley and Frasier Crane

And Frasier seems a bit outmatched...Well maybe...'cause he's in pain

But he don't know what to do to beat Bob Hartley, does Frasier Crane..

..He's tryin' again.

Frasier Crane all over the place...What is a shrink to do?


- 1/2 Nelson

There ain't no "Hi Frasier" drinking game. 'Nuff said.

- Spider-Dan

(FYI: Kelsey Grammer played a Starfleet Captain on "Star Trek: The Next Generation.)

As the starter's gun goes off, Frasier taps a lapel pin on his jacket. "Crane to Bozeman, beam one person off the wall and on to the ground." Darryl dissolves in a beam of light and rematerializes on the ground, safe and in one piece.

Then, as he approaches the lawyers, he hits the pin again. "Set phasers on maximum stun for these coordinates." A flash of light drops all the lawyers (and Bob) as he walks across the field to the writing event.

As he gets to the event, a young black man materializes holding a padd. "Here's your introduction, Dr. Crane," Jake Sisko says. "Thank you, Jake. Have a raktajeno at Quark's on me, and give my regards to your father." Crane cuts and pastes Jake's cribbed words into the book.

Finally, at the couch leap, Crane has the Bozeman transport him over the distance.

- Don Meyers

The dogg has seen a lot of fights, and when he looks at this one, he has a feeling that my man Bob is gonna lay the smack down on pretty-boy Frasier.


Truth be known, I've only watched one episode of "Frasier", that one being the premier, so I don't know too much about the show (other than it's got that cool dog). But growing up I watched a lot of "Bob Newhart" reruns... enough to know that Frasier should worry.

First of all, Hartley is Chicago-bred... "Chicago" as in Scarface Al, stockyard aroma, political convention riots, Oprah Winfrey and "The Fugitive". I imagine that Hartley's psyche is a pretty hardened thing after years of being bombarded by all this. Not so with Frasier: if anything his mind has been warped past the point of no return by his surroundings. First was the inanities of his fellow Cheers patrons and now he's reliving his childhood all over again with Niles and their cranky pop. To make matters worse he's living in Seattle, which of late hasn't given us much apart from chick tearjerkers, Twin Peaks and the Millennium Group(tm).

Then there's their abilities as actual psychiatrists. Frasier can't seem to do much past the odd radio-talk show and prior to that helping fellow boozers down at the bar, and most of the time he's trying to get out of his own situations. I've seen Hartley cure people from everything from chronic stuttering to demonic possession.

Forget psychiatry, this guy's got some serious powers backing him up!

To top it off, Frasier's inner torments have carried over into his real-life (jail time), not to mention the schizoid personality spawned within Frasier answering to the name of "Sideshow" Bob Terwilliger. At least behind the pallid mask, Hartley is a whole man.

This comes down to the classic supernatural duel: Bob Hartley, armed with icy facade and ready to fight evil incarnate, against Frasier Crane, possessed by his own inner demons and the "two Bobs" (Sideshow Bob and the now-unemployed Killer BOB). Hartley will win the contest, no doubt about it. Unfortunately Frasier then goes on a cross-country killspree, starting with Hartley. The ending of this story arrives in the form of Frank Black hunched over Hartley's body and seeing visions, "The killer is trying to create a composite reality out of the sum of his identities. This was a crime of pathological need..." while Hartley's soul screams upon being damned to an eternity in the Stratford Inn. In a curious way, the madness has now come full-circle.

- Chris 'Jedi' Knight, Larry, Darryl and Darryl's ne'er do-well other brother

Frasier kept Carla from killing people didn't he?

- Lurch

I Hate Frasier!!! Bring Back Seinfeld!!! Seinfeld could handle this situation bettern than both of these phreaks. Both of these men can go to hell, but I gotta give the props to the old school Bob way more than bald fuss-head

- Blachloch

Bob will win. Why? Because there is only one step to winning a fight like this, not twelve.

- John--(ruthless bastard)

Of course Frasier would win. He's from Seattle, and nobody from Seattle could lose to someone from Chicago. Seattle is endlessly superior. Seattle has the Space Needle, which is way better than having the tallest building in the country. Less is more. And does the Sears tower have a revolving restaurant? Revolving restaurants are the height of cool. What does Chicago have for sports? The Bulls? Come on, they're all steroid-enslaved sissy-boys.

And the arts? Seattle created grunge rock, the greatest art form ever created by man. And does Seattle need some pretentious nickname like "The City of the Big Shoulders" or "The Windy City"? No, Seattle let's it's greatness speak for itself. They're happy just being known as The Rain Capital of North America. Best of all, Seattle has a monorail. No city that has a monorail is ever going to be dissed by a city that's sans monorail.

Last but not least, Frasier will win because, like the incredibly witty, handsome and intelligent Bill Gates, he used to live in the Boston area and now is a Seattle resident. Being like Bill is good. Everybody loves Bill. There is no finer person alive than Bill Gates, so being like him is a key to sure victory. After Frasier wins the Psychiatric Olympics he'll put on his powered armor (Windows 98 compatible) and go beat up Janet Reno and all of Bill's enemies in the Congress, because nobody's better than Bill, so Frasier won't take any crap from any federal goons who don't like free enterprise. Then he'll come back to Seattle and get jiggy with all the foxy chicks that weren't quite hot enough to make it into Mr. Gates 500 member harem of Playboy Centerfold look-a-likes. Yeah, that Bill's really cool and studly. I wish I were just like him.

- Mr. Silverback- Icrosoft-may oons-gay are aking-may e-may ype-tay is-thay arbage-gay. End-say elp-hay.

I don't know if you noticed this... but if those lawyers are Lionel Hutzes that means this is Springfield, and that means it's Bob [Hartley] vs. Bob [Terwilliger]. Sideshow takes out a knife, slaughters Mr. Hartley before he's asked to sing the score to HMS Pinafore, and runs off after Bart in a homicidal rage.

- Jak the Duck

Frasier takes an early lead at the wall, with a little help. As he begins his coaxing of Darryl, Eddie the dog runs onto the field, parks himself under the wall, and stares menacingly upward. Darryl is sufficiently unhinged by this behavior that he falls backwards off the wall. Frasier takes this as a win, and races ahead of the more gentle Bob.

The lawyers provide little challenge for the contestants. Frasier hands out his lawyer's business cards to placate them, while the briefcased sharks simply can't get excited over disemboweling a sleepy-eyed, cardigan-clad Bob.

Frasier takes his lead to the introduction table, where the main knot of spectators is located. At each writing desk is an urn of double vanilla espresso, courtesy of Seattle's own Café Nervosa, a sponsor of the event. The combination of fans and coffee prove lethal to the unsuspecting Frasier.

He's halfway through his introduction when Bob Hartley huffs into view. As happens whenever anyone sees him, the fans greet him with a ragged chorus of "Hi, Bob!" Subliminally trained by the drinking games of his classmates at Harvard, Frasier takes a shot of coffee with each repetition, which rapidly runs into the dozens. The mass infusion of caffeine soon leaves him vibrating too hard to hold the pen, and he ends up bounding over the psychiatrist's couch and off into the distance like a hyperactive kangaroo.

With Frasier's introduction broken off in mid-word, Bob takes his time finishing, and crosses the finish line without breaking a sweat ... as if he ever would.

- Call me Shane

To decide this contest I will invoke the Lisa Kudrow Factor (tm). This states simply that whoever has this beautiful, Emmy-award winning actress on their TV show is a genius, and those that don't are akin to something I'd scrape off of my shoe.

Lisa was on Bob Newhart's shortlived series "Bob" which puts Mr. Newhart in the genius category.

Contrarily, Lisa was cast in the role of Roz Doyle on "Frasier" but was fired before the pilot was taped, which sends Kelsey Grammer's idiocy off the scale.

Based on this, I hope Dr. Bob slices open Frasier's bloated beer gut and force feeds Dr. Crane's intestines to his brother Niles.

- King of no Media

Let's look at this competition in terms of the actors who portray these psychiatrists, Bob Newhart (Dr. Hartley) and Kelsey Grammer (Dr. Crane). Newhart is a calm, low-key standup comic with an incredible sense of timing. Don't believe it? Try doing an imaginary, one-sided phone conversation and make it sound like there is someone on the other end. It's not easy and most people in show business can't do it. Grammer is an actor with little or no standup experience who has been mentioned more in the police blotter than on the entertainment page. He is a very good actor though. Dr. Crane is nowhere near as messed-up mentally as Kelsey Grammer is. So, on the issue of character, I would side with Dr. Hartley.

In the wall competition, both would succeed in talking down their leaper. However, Frasier would nearly drive his to jump before somehow figuring out how to talk him down. Dr. Hartley's calm, laid-back style would come across as non-threatening and his leaper would be talked down without incident.

The lawyer competition is tough to call. Dr. Hartley's low-profile approach and lack of fame would make him a fairly stealthy target and hard for the lawyers to home in on. Dr. Crane's fame as a radio host and more flamboyant style makes him an easier target. However, Kelsey Grammer has lots of experience with lawyers (from his numerous run-ins with the law) and could probably counter them. I'd say it's a draw.

The book competition goes to Dr. Hartley. While Dr. Crane has more dramatic style in his prose, and both men are highly educated. Dr. Hartley can draw on the fact that Bob Newhart is an experienced standup comic. In most cases, standup comics really love language. All Dr. Hartley would have to do is write down some valid observations, and he's done. Dr. Crane would still be writing.

But, the one thing that really swings this competition is that I like Bob Newhart more than Kelsey Grammer.

- The Demented Astronomer

This rivalry has gone on too long. Bob was the original TV head shrinker and no upstart is gonna challenge his supremecy. Bob Newhart laying the smack down on that sissy, Frasier, that's what the people long for! The people want to see a FIGHT! This is a first for the Psychiatric Olympics. The two competitors enter the Octagon in nothing but spandex butt shorts and black socks. Crane slaps Bob across the face. I think they heard that one in the cheap seats! But, what's this? Hartley has a folding chair. No, not that! Ohhhhh!! He's smacked Frasier over the head with it!! But wait! Here comes Lilith screaming like a banshee. I guess she never quite got over Frasier and she's here to even the odds. But Emily Hartley is standing by her man and she's got ahold of Lilith's bun before she can reach the ring. I guess this match is gonna be mano a mano. Frasier wipes away some tears and puts up his dukes. Bob switches, does a quick fade to the left, Frasier bites and tries a week left jab. Bob executes a beautiful jump spin hook kick to the head and Frasier goes down. Bob incites the crowd while Friaser shakes off a slight concusion on his hands and knees. Norm isn't about to sit still while his old beer buddy gets wiped out. He hands his Ronco Beer-Dispenser Hat (TM) to Cliff and heads toward the ring. But, here are Darryl and Darryl armed with chainsaws and hockey masks. Norm skillfully dodges the blades and knocks their heads together; they fall in a heap on the floor. Security tries to stop Norm, but he's on a rampage. Norm enters the ring, and Bob sees him just as he's barreling down on him like a freight train. Bob has just enough time to stuff his foot in Norm's groin and sit back launching him into Frasier who was just coming around behind Bob at the far end of the ring. Its all over. The crowd goes crazy and Bob goes home with the Enormous Gold Belt (TM).

Oh, Man! I would pay some serious money if Don King would put that one on pay per view.

- J-J

Frasier wins hands down. Why? Name Recognition(tm). It may not seem fair, but a more recent, popular figure will always win in this online popularity contest. And c'mon. Who on the Web besides die-hard fans of Nick-at-Nite has seen The Bob Newhart Show? Bob, his superior psychotherapic talents notwithstanding, will be buried under the Name Recognition(tm) of his pop psychology rival.

- Jon Insler

Frasier in 5 minutes flat, definetely! First of all, have you ever seen Bob order a triple latte even once?! Everyone knows that anyone caffiene-powered is unstopppable! Frasier prob'ly didn't get any sleep because he was thinking about how bad a life (or lack thereof) he has, so he is going purely on caffiene. Plus, his terrible life (or lack thereof) motivates him to go the distance and dismember Bob! Second, any idiot can see that Daryl is MUCH more unstable than Daryl. The lawyers would go right for Frasier, but while he was distracted, Bob would probly drop his rug and be fumbling with it long after Frasier got past them. Frasier knows a bunch of unknown philosophers' cliches that everyone would think is original. The springboard would be simple as soon as he pulls out a hip flask of moonshine Merlot, and launch himself to the finish line. Bob would still be struggling with more cliched cliches when Frasier gets the trophy. Bob would get tossed into the volcano along with Dr. Laura (yes!), and the competition would be over.

- The Masked Rodian

I voted for Frasier here, but on further reflection I realize Bob Hartley will win. The reason? Take a look at Bob; on the surface a mild-mannered geek who seems to almost fade into the background. Such an appearance must mean only one thing; "Bob Hartley" is in fact the alter identity of a superhero! One quick change in a phone booth and "Captain Newhart" will rescue both Darryls from the wall, incinerate the lawyers with his heat vision, and type the book introduction at 1,000,000 words/minute for an easy win!

- "Mad Dog" Mike

Frasier is going down because of the Cheers Curse(tm). Let me explain.

"Cheers" (1982-1993) was one of the longest running , most acclaimed and downright funniest sitcoms in the history of television. And for good reason. It *was* good. And we should all thank the actors and actresses involved for bringing us such quality television. However, since the show went off the air, Hollywood has not been kind to these wonderful people. Consider, if you will, the careers that these people have enjoyed since 1993.

Kelsey "Frasier" Grammer has been the only major character from Cheers to be doing real, worthwhile entertainment since 1993. He is way overdue for the fall. After six hours of futile attempts to get Darryl off that wall, Frasier will be in the fetal position sucking his thumb and asking for his mommy. Utterly embarrassed by his humiliating loss, his show will be cancelled. Look for him in the next Hellraiser movie. So sayeth the curse.

- Paul G.

The Final Word


Nobody gets through the lawyers. *Nobody.* Victory to Ken Starr.

- martinl

NEWS: The WWWF are saddened to hear of Mary Frann's passing. She played Bob Newhart's wife on the Newhart series.

If you liked this match, check out these other past matches:

Doogie Howser v. Niles Crane
Wheel of Fortune with Larry's Other Brother Darryl
Sam Malone v. The Fonz

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Next match: When the hunters become the hunted...
ETA: Wednesday, October 14th.

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