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Ground Zero

G2: Grudgement Day

The Scenario

Heat rises from the dry desert soil. A lone buzzard lazily flies circles overhead, awaiting dinner. The townsfolk have boarded up their windows and are shielding the children from the inevitable violence that accompanies a settling of accounts. The local mortician waits in the wings with his tape measure to fit the vanquished with a new coffin.

The tension increases as the two men lock stares at opposite ends of the town's main street. Witnesses were unsure how this became a death match between the Shootist and the man with no name, but many believed it was an outgrowth of a high-stakes game of crazy eights involving the affection of the saloon keeper's daughter.

The younger outlaw breaks the silence: "There must be a hundred reasons why I don't blow you away," his voice barely above a whisper. "Right now I can't think of one."

"I never killed a man who didn't deserve it," responds the older gun slinger.

"Go ahead, make my day..."

"Big mouth don't make a big man, Pilgrim."

"Are you gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"

"Fill your hands, you son of a bitch!" are the final words heard before the gunfire begins...

So, HotBranch, will Wayne whack the wiley warrior or can Clint conquer his competitor?

Clint Eastwood John Wayne, The Duke

Clint Eastwood


John Wayne

Before you read any further, we KNOW that John Wayne is dead. However, in the true spirit of the WWWF, the Duke should be considered for his merits and abilities prior to his death. Any responses that point out that Wayne is dead will be ignored (unless they are really good). - Eds.

The Commentary

HOTBRANCH: A classic western shootout. Why hasn't the WWWF done this before? No matter, Clint Eastwood will emerge victorious from this battle. Bet your bottom dollar on it! (NOTE: WWWF Ground Zero does not condone gambling and will not be held responsible for any lost wagers. - Eds.)

Since Eastwood and Wayne are the heroes from their respective movies, this won't be a one shot affair, and in a battle of endurance, Clint has the upper hand because of his youth compared to the Duke. In all Eastwood western/action movies, Clint faces seemingly insurmountable odds, yet he manages to come through. Clint doesn't suffer fools gladly, yet he has a pretty long fuse. If Eastwood is ready to risk his life, he is pumped and PISSED. You have to know that Wayne has burned the fuse for too long and there is no turning back.

All westerns (and action movies) follow the same two rules A) guns, whatever the model, need never be reloaded for five minutes, at which point B) the combatants lose their guns and must resort to a fist fight. These rules clearly favor Eastwood because they require endurance and stamina. Each gunfighter's initial shot will miss its target by fractions of an inch and the competitors will head for cover. After the regulation five minute shootout, they will be forced to beat the crap out of each other. The Duke was a notorious four-pack-a-day smoker, so the first Eastwood jab to the gut will wind the Duke, leaving him prostrate on the ground, ready for Eastwood to retrieve his newly reloaded gun to complete the job.

It's a shame that Wayne is finished in such an undignified manner, but he should never have tried to pass two fours off as an eight. A man's got to know his limitations and respect the rules of the game. The Duke will pay the price for crossing the man with no name...

BRENDAN: You surprise me HotBranch. Here you are arguing for a known maverick, a man who as Dirty Harry was always willing to go against the rules to get results, and what are you doing, quoting rules at me. I suggest you watch Scream 2 and see what happens to rules lawyer Randy Meeks, if you think Eastwood can count on the rules to save him from the awesome power of the Duke.

Lets face facts here, our two combatants are fairly well matched in terms of ability and experience. Therefore its all going to come down to the mindset of the men involved, and that dooms Eastwood for one simple reason, he's been emasculated by the 90s. Need proof? The man was in a freaking musical, (and speaking as a person who has seen West Side Story twelve times I can say with certainty that fancy song and dance numbers may help you bang Natalie Wood but they aren't going to do jack for you in a real fight). Need further proof, five words, The Bridges of Madison County. Eastwood's been corrupted by the times and because of that he's not going to have the focus that he needs to win. Instead he's going to be thinking about what his therapist is going to say, and what to do if the media hear about this, and about how if he uses his gun he can forgot about having Barbara Streisand over for tennis.

Now lets look at the mindset of the Duke. Thankfully he was spared the ravages of the last twenty years, and as such he will still have the proper mindset needed to win. He's a simple man from simpler times where men were real men, women were real women, and you were allowed to kill anyone that was Indian, Japanese, or wearing a black hat. He's never heard of things like his inner child, or cultural sensitivity, or that cigarettes might be bad for him. The Duke has clarity of purpose and he certainly doesn't care what anyone else thinks, all he cares about is that someone called him a cheater and now he's gotta fix that fellow but good.

Maybe, just maybe the Clint Eastwood of twenty years ago might have had a chance, but now its too late, he's been corrupted by the times and all he can hope for is that the Duke will put him out of his misery.

HOTBRANCH: Why do I have the feeling you couldn't find a needle on the New Jersey shoreline, Brendan? Oh yeah! It's because your arguments demonstrate your cluelessness. Clint Eastwood, regardless of the character he played, always respected the rules of the film genre. The rules he disregarded were those imposed on him regarding proper procedure, which more often than not, got in Eastwood's way. Clint has the cojones to buck the system and get the job done. The Duke's westerns sanitized the Old West, whereas Eastwood wasn't afraid to show what it was really all about. Revisionist history might make for happier endings, but it isn't real. A real man isn't afraid to portray the truth, whether it is good, bad or ugly.

Furthermore, you speak of Eastwood's emasculation, yet you very conveniently forget that The Duke was decades ahead in that category. Does the name Marion Michael Morrison ring any bells? No? The Duke's real first name was MARION! No wonder he changed his name: it cries out "Poofter!" The name change might have made Wayne sound more masculine, but it couldn't affect his genes, which he passed on to his son, Patrick, who hosted the horrific "The Monte Carlo Show". As for your knowledge of musicals, Brendan, is it not strange that you forgot that John Wayne also starred in musicals? Eastwood has taken the angry energy of living in these socially and politically correct times and channelled it into one of the WWWF's most powerful elements: the RAGE™. In case you hadn't noticed, the stoic Eastwood exterior barely conceals the anger within; Clint is the living embodiment of the RAGE™, and that spells T-R-O-U-B-L-E for the Duke. Wayne is in the wrong place at the wrong time, and he's about to have a Sudden Impact with an industrial barrel of Whup-Ass™.

The most compelling argument, in addition to the RAGE™, is each combatant's track record. Eastwood is a previous WWWF winner, whereas John Wayne has, until now, been deemed unworthy of WWWF competition. Not only has Wayne been previously unworthy of competing in our prestigious forum, he has a nasty habit of dying in his movies (The Alamo, Sands of Iwo Jima, and The Fighting Seabees to name only three). If the Duke's "proper mindset" is today is a good time to die, then you might as well seal his WWWF coffin and toss him into the ground. Clearly, John Wayne is in The Line of Fire and he is going to suffer a Magnum Force of a beating.

BRENDAN: You call me clueless and then you have the gall to try and present the RAGE as an argument for why Eastwood would win? The RAGE which is known on planet Earth as the "I don't have any real arguments to use so I'm going to pull out the most overused cliche in the history of the Grudge Match and hope that I can trick the rubes who are still impressed by ™ symbols and writing in all capital letters into voting for me" argument. I'll gladly set the Duke's icy determination and nerves of steel against your precious RAGE (which just impairs judgment and makes you an easier target) and I guarantee you the man that has the clear head is the man that's going to win.

I will admit that Marion is an unfortunate name, but this just puts the Duke in the same league with such greats as the Emperor Augustus, Muhammad Ali, and Madonna who all overcame questionable original names and went on to achieve incredible power and infamy. Anyway, at least the Duke isn't having to live down the shame of having Michael J. Fox steal his name.

As for WWWF precedent, yes defeating the mighty Shaft is impressive, but precedent works both ways, and today it is pointing to an easy John Wayne victory.

Consider if you will, the recent Godzilla vs King Kong matchup and remember the devastatingly humiliating defeat King Kong suffered at the hands of Godzilla. Now consider these factors:
- Godzilla is good at killing Japanese
- The Duke is good at killing Japanese
- King Kong is a monkey
- Eastwood is really really friendly with a companion monkey in several of his movies.

Get the point?

And yes the Duke can be killed, but all that proves is that he doesn't fear death, which will make him even stronger. Besides at the Alamo he was outnumbered ten to one, and in The Sands of Iwo Jima he was shot in the back in the closing moments of the battle. Is Eastwood desperate enough to shoot a man in the back or send an entire gang after the Duke? In a straight up man to man fight the Duke is all but invincible; a fact that Eastwood is going to learn today along with why they say that the man who "really" shot Liberty Valance is the bravest man of all and if there is an afterlife or not.

Thanks to Matthew K. Johnson, who was first among several to suggest this match.

Special thanks also to Carey Merritt for technical assistance in getting the western genre just right.

The Results

Clint Eastwood (941 - 55%)


John Wayne (770 - 45%)

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Voter Comments

Due to the large number and very high quality of responses, we were forced to employ The Iron Fist™ in trimming them down to manageable size. We salute everyone who sent us a response. Keep up the great work!
Gold Grudgie


I know Gunnery Sgt. Hartman from Full Metal Jacket. A clone of Gunnery Sgt. Hartman from Full Metal Jacket was a Basic Training Instructor of mine. And Clint Eastwood is no Gunnery Sgt. Hartman.

Hartman haunts my days and nights, an ever-present spectre of my destruction, waiting to return and again transform my life into A World Of Hurt (TM). I fear him more than nuclear war, wedgies or swirlies. I fear him more than Hannibal Lecter and Jeffrey Dahmer becoming my next door neighbors, more than waking to find that I am no longer anatomically correct, more than getting a passionate two page love letter from the Repeat Violent Offenders Male Chorus. Just the thought of his yellow eyes burning with hatred for my worthless carcass as he weaves a tapestry of humiliation and sailor-embarrassing obscenity changes me from a steadfast former non-commissioned officer to a whimpering, sweaty mass of useless protein only capable of sucking my thumb. And there are thousands more of his victims scattered across the world, and he manages to attend to every one of us in our nightmares of Lackland AFB, Parris Island and a thousand other sites of concentrated misery. The Bible says the beginning of wisdom is the fear of God. Step Two is the fear of Gunnery Sgt. Hartman. And whom do we see being intimidated like a mere schoolgirl by John Wayne in a recent beer ad? Gunnery Sgt. Hartman.

Eastwood might be a hard case when he's pushing Sondra Locke around, but it's not going to fly with the Duke. He should be glad that this is a shootout, because he will die a quick death. Otherwise he would have three seconds, exactly three $%#&@ seconds before the Duke gouged out his eyes and...well, you get the point.

- Mr. Silverback- Thank God for my Big Bird Nite-Lite.

Silver Grudgie

ROTW ™ Silver Medal Grudgie ™

The statistics speak for themselves:

Event      Result

MWNN (Man With No Name)

Beaten     Survived
Trampled   Survived
Shot       Survived
Hung       Survived
Killed     Resurrected

The Duke

Shot       Dead

hmm, I don't think I need to go any further.

- The Good, no The Bad, no wait ...

Bronze Grudgie

ROTW ™ Bronze Medal Grudgie ™

"'The Hollywood Handicap'? What kind of fag movie's that?" snarls Eastwood.

"Oh, yeah, well I've got just three words for you, mister: 'Paint Your Wagon'!" drawls Wayne.

"Now you've gone too far!" Eastwood murmurs, his eyes narrowing to two steely slits. He removes from a leather holster, not a six-shooter, but a geiger counter. It begins clicking ominously. "You made a big mistake, Wayne, when you took a part in a movie being filmed downwind of a nuclear test site!"

"Damn!" says Wayne, removing a pack of Marlboros from a pocket. "I always thought it was these damn smokes that would kill me!"

"Not cigarettes, big man, just a little residual radiation. By now you've absorbed enough rads to kill you--in about twenty-five years!" Eastwood takes out his pistol and throws it away casually. "I'll let nature kill you the slow way!"

"Maybe so, you squinty-eyed fruit, but you'll never live to see it!" Wayne draws his six-shooter and plugs Eastwood with five slugs.

Eastwood only smiles as Wayne rubs his eyes in disbelief. "You can't kill someone who's already dead! Not even YOU ever appeared in a movie as a ghost!" In a shimmer of heat, Eastwood disappears.

"God-damn revisionist westerns!" Wayne mutters, resigned to his eventual fate.

- Deacon

Observation #1: anything having anything to do with the color green has won the WWWF... M*A*S*H defeated the Mean Machine (Korean War, green tents & uniforms, etc.), Gumby vs. Mr. Bill, X-Files out-sleuthed Scooby Doo (X-Files logo is green), Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles destroyed the Power Rangers, and Lucky the Leprechaun, in his green Irish finery, skinned alive the Trix Rabbit.

Observation #2: John Wayne once starred in a movie called "The Green Berets"

Conclusion: with stats like that, the Duke blows Eastwood cleeen away!!

- Chris 'Jedi' Knight

Thinking they're at the OK Corral, other greats such as Bat Masterson and Wyatte Earp (from Tombstone) join in the fight, not choosing sides but just adding to the confusion and gunfire. Shouts, sparks and smoke collect in the area, making it impossible to see anything...

Except for a bright pink cowboy shirt, which everybody aims for. The Duke lays dead.

Moral of the story: Real Cowboys Never Dressed in 60's-Era Versions of Cowboy Clothes.

- MonkeyDog!

Nice try, Brendan and Hotbranch, but mindset, RAGE(TM), ability, and track record are all totally irrelevant here. We all know that the ONLY important factor in whether you win a shooting match in the Wild West is whether you are a Good Guy or a Bad Guy.

Both these men kill people on a regular basis But Clint Eastwood is also an adulterer (see Bridges of MC - on second thought, don't bother, just take my word for it). Thus, Clint Eastwood is not the Good Guy. John Wayne will win the fight. On the other hand, clint dies sexually fulfilled and happy. John just continues shooting off his gun and climbing trees by gripping them with his powerful thighs, until one day his pent-up sexual energy causes him to spontaneously combust...

- RC

Two conflicting scenarios-

a) Clint finds out his opponent's real name is Marion, and hesitates, because he doesn't want to shoot a lady. John Wayne wins.

b) Clint doesn't find out. He wins, precisely because he is corrupted by the Hollywood of today- who do you think is filming this? Clint knows how to play their game, and a shot from off camera will help Clint dramatically win.

Unfortunately for the Duke, who's going to tell Clint about {snigger} Marion Morrison? The Duke is too ashamed to tell anyone, and everyone else wants Clint to win.

I'd make an Unforgiven joke now, but I can't think of a good one.

- Zhirrzh

Eastwood deserves to die after having committed one of the most horrific acts of domestic terrorism ever conceived: the bathtub scene from The Bridges of Madison County. That's like bathing in a tub full of greasy dishwater -- just thinking about it made my cholesterol level quadruple within the past two minutes.

The only progress I want to see this Pilgrim make is six feet under. Go get'im, Duke!

- The Genius Formerly (and Still) Known as Eddie

I know one thing for sure about our combatants. My friend Grant Hardin can do anything -- woodworking, leatherworking, blacksmithing, gunsmithing, hand-to-hand combat with knives, hatchets, and bare hands, and nearly everything else. When Grant needs to justifiy or prove a point, how does he do it? With a statement that begins thus, "Well, as the Duke would say...." If the Duke is that quotable, he can kick Eastwood's butt.

Plus, he died (partly) of radiation induced cancer caused by too many films near where they tested the A-bombs. Who knows what mutations he may have developed over the past twenty years in the grave?

- Field Marshall J A "Dusty" Sayers, O.St.D.

Eastwood Dead, Wayne Wounded


In a stunning development today, The Duke bested Dirty Harry in a no-holds barred, knock-down, drag-out, shoot-em-up the likes of which this reporter has never seen before.

Eyewitnesses report that the meeting of these two cultural icons erupted into violence when The Duke was accused of cheating in a crazy-eights game whose stakes included the affections of a saloon keeper's daughter.

The duel began, like all frontier duels, in the streets of Dodge City. Both men stood and delivered. . .and missed! By accord, they discarded their pistols, and picked up the nearest handy objects to bludgeon each other with. Eastwood, with limited options, settled for a drunk Mexican wearing spurs. "That's a dirty trick, pilgrim. Wayne was heard to say, as he reached for a 1972 Cadillac El Dorado, "You're gonna scratch my Caddy."

It grew quiet suddenly, like the calm before a storm, and the combatants charged each other. A drunken squawk of terror later, there was an ear-shattering KA-WUMP! When the dust settled, Wayne was inspecting a nasty scratch on his Caddy, a drunken Mexican lay in several pieces all over the area, and a pair of boots stuck out from under the El Dorado.

- Sapsucker Frog

This fight is more lopsided than an Emmanualle Lewis/Martina Navritilova love fest. Who ever thought it would be possible for the Duke to lose to some squinty eyed wanna-be? It was probaly some loose pantied housewife who saw Bridges of Madison County 12 times.

The facts are as plain as a Sizzler waitress in Utah. Eastwood has fought bravely in the past, but he always fought with the odds on his side. Dirty Harry vs. some punk kid, Josie Wales vs. some punk soldier, that guy in Unforgiven vs some punk sherriff. Hell, even Bruce Willis could win in a fight with those odds. But The Duke, John Wayne, always had a real challenge. If he wasn't fighting the entire jap army on some god-forsaken beach, then he was smacking around a platoon of gooks in the rice patties of 'Nam. When the Duke wasn't defending some hellhole of a fort against the entire Mexican Army, then he was teaching a tribe of Indians exactly where to put that damn peace pipe of thiers. When it comes to facing a challenge head on, Eastwood is a Trojan while John Wayne is a Shiek.

And then we have the women. This is the clincher. When Clint needs a woman, he goes after some widowed frontier woman who just lost her husband in an ox cart crash, or some lonely housewife who hasn't been touched by a man since some drunk threw up on her in a bar. There's no challenge there. Hell, Larry Bud Melman could get laid by these women with a couple of kind words and a tape of Steel Magnolias. On the other hand when John Wayne went after a broad, it was always some high society type dame who thought he was gutter trash. But by the end of the flick, that woman was scrubbing his back in the tub and asking when would his 'six shooter be loaded again.' That's a real men for you.

The the results of this match are clear. John Wayne pimp slaps Eastwood like he was a prostitue holding back a twenty dolloar bill.

- Derrick

I'll go with Eastwood all the way.

What's Wayne going now? Hawking beer! Now all fine and dandy when you're alive, but The Duke's turning into Max HeadFoam!

"I say here, Puh-puh-pilgrim! Ya gotta try the Real Thing! This Buh-buh-bud's for you!"

Sorry, John. You'll always be second fiddle to the Mackenzie Brothers now, eh?

- Vlad, ever vigilant Hamster of Wonder

I don't think I can vote because I hate old westerns. My dad loves them though so I tried to get him to vote, but he won't. He likes them both too much as good guys and will refuse any voting unless they are on the same side. I thought my dad, having seen every movie of both these guys, would have something good to say.....but oh, well.

- A son of a Western fan

This ones tough to call. Nobody but Nobody beat Clint in the classic gunfight, but then again the Duke didn't often get into these draw affairs. But then Hot Branch made it all clear. If this fight is to follow the rules and it does get into fisticuffs, the advantage goes to the Duke. The Duke killed a man once during a fist fight (see The Quiet Man) and has been known to kill Japanese guards with his bare hands. On the other hand, while Clint fought real way in the Every Which Way But Loose series, now that he's older he is vulnerable to any old town punk (see The Unforgiven).

Winner by a knockout in 4 rounds: John "The Duke" Wayne

- Terpman

Clint Eastwood has no chance. John Wayne is dead. And yet, he can still fight. This means one thing. John Wayne must be a zombie. In his long career of busting serious ass, Clint has never killed a zombie. Poor Mr. Eastwood has no idea that it requires a head shot to kill a zombie. It's too late for Mr. "Look at me, i got a pet monkey." The animated corpse of John Wayne devours him, John Carradine, and James Gardner before being chopped into bits by a maddened Bruce Campbell.

- i hate westerns and love horror movies

Eastwood draws first, only to find he's pulled out a bunch of flowers he was planning to give to Meryl Streep. They still find a use, though, adorning Clint's new grave on Boot Hill™.

- Call me Shane(another gunfighter who would've beaten Eastwood, BTW)

When two icy gunslingers go head to head, a wide variety of factors may decide which combatant will leaking horizontally and which will be practicing his fancy reholstering maneuvers. Whatever those wide variety of factors might be, I'm going to ignore them all and make my prediction based on the only factor that really matters: On-Screen Body Count. Yup, when firearms are raised in anger, only those who have killed before are likely to kill again, and those who have killed many times before are much more likely to kill again. Given this criteria, the outcome is obvious: Mr. Wayne will end up attempting to tele-kinetically close the gaping gunshot wounds that riddle his body, while the Man with No Name strolls off into the sunset (limping a bit from arthritis).

- Eugene

I had to vote for Clint Eastwood because my friend Mick sent me an E-Mail begging me to vote for John Wayne. This annoyed me, so I had no choice in the matter.

- Emily Wolfe

This is a real no-brainer. Eastwood takes out the Duke in summary fashion.

John Wayne only used standard-issue weapons in his movies, while Eastwood always sought the most powerful, bad a** gun on the planet. Wayne's going to pull out a Colt revolver while Eastwood whips out a 30 mm gattling gun from an F-18 and blows John Wayne's sorry butt to kingdom come.

- Don Meyers

OK, since you didn't specify, we get to use the Unforgiven Clint, which I might add was voted one of The 100 Best Movies Like Ever by the AFI. And even if you don't agree with those stuffed-shirt weirdoes (No Troma? Whence Sgt. Kabukiman? Come on!) you gotta admit that's a pretty big accomplishment for an old cowboy. Sure, there was a couple of The Duke's movies on there, but he didn't direct and everything like my man Clint did with Unforgiven.

Plus, he had already done all that other stuff we saw in the other movies. Clint's so mean he killed John Malkovich. He's sensitive and aging well. Damn he's smooth. Women want him, and men want to be him.

However to his detriment, he also made The Bitches of Madison Country. 'Nuff said.

He's The Duke. That's all he needs. I'm surprised you even had to mention the "we don't care if he's dead" caveat. This is The Duke. Death couldn't even keep him away from this fight.

Oh, and if anyone says The Duke was gay, I'll beat the snot out of you. Same with Errol Flynn. They were Men's Men, and yer a Commie Pinko if you think otherwise.

And now I'm very far off topic. Anyways. Clint's got this one. After all, he shot the sheriff, and he also shot the deputy.

- The Geek Formerly Known As Jack Dracula

Much as I wish it were otherwise, I don't think Clint has a chance here. Sure he's a (marginally) better actor, but that's not going to help him here. When it all comes down to it, only one thing matters:

John Wayne doesn't bleed!

Haven't you ever paid close attention to one of those movies? Take the Sands of Iwo Jima. He's a live and then he's dead. Not grunting, no screaming and, most of all, no blood! When an ordinary person a "human", if you will, is penetrated by a Japanese shell (and we all know how painful that can be) he screams, he cries out, he grunts... He acknowledges his departure from this plane of existance in some way. Most of all, he bleeds! John Wayne just drops. No sound and no blood. This proves something crucial:


Eastwood, on the other hand, grunts and grimaces all the time. We know he's human. He also has sex which is another human function we've never actually seen the Duke carry out. Clint is clearly human and his sly smiles and directorial abilities are not going to get him out of this. In any battle between a mind-numbed cyborg like Wayne and a flesh-and-blood human like Clint there can only be one outcome...

The Duke Lives...

Eastwood dies.

- Alan Ross

I'm going to have to go with the Duke on this one. In real life he lived through WW2. He might not of been in WW2 but any Duke fan knows he wanted to be in the War. The army however told him to make really cool movies to hype the army. This gives Wayne THE RAGE T.M. We know he wanted to go Nazi busting for real.

As for Eastwood, he lived through Vietnam. We all know that produces Hippies. Ooh Hippies, Eastwood may look tough but he only did those movies for money. Not like Waynes pure Nazi hate.

Sorry to speak of death but this is pre-death. As the Duke faded out of culture Eastwood stepped in. He resented this and may have hated Clint. As Eastwood grew up he may have idolized Wayne.

As for the movie standpoint. Eastwood can deal with thieves outlaws, bandits, and drugdealers. Ok, once he stole a MIG in "Firefox" from the Russians. The Duke did all that and more. Wayne single handedly took on Nazi Germany eight (or more) times. Remember, who is still a power anyway? Nazis or Commies. That's right, the Duke Killed every last Hitler Wannabe (Neo Nazis Don't count).

Even if you do feel lucky punk, OL' John will get Clint with the first five shots.

- Wopachaun

you have restored my faith in you new guys ,last week i thought you guys sucked this week you rule!!!

now,the duke wins simply because clint takes a dive so the old guy has one last hurrah just like in that any which way but loose or you can. when he took the dive for tank thats the only way i could come up with a way that noone really losses because they are 2 of americas greatest actors and my favorites,thank god for that out.

- Len-Bo

Two of the greatest icons of cinematic manliness in a one-on-one fight. Hmmm...I guess film industry history should be consulted on this one.

Shortly before his death, the Duke told Clint that the younger actor's most recent works (specifically "High Plains Drifter") were "killing the Western." Eastwood paid the man no heed, and went on to continually emasculate the most masculine of film genres. There was a sgnificant payoff, too. Clint was honored by the film industry for his half-assed-P.C.-apology-masquerading-as-a-Western (otherwise known as "Unforgiven").

So that pretty much tears it, as far as I'm concerned. Anyone who gets accolades from the left-leaning, tree-hugging, myth-killing (revisionist history my ass, the West was a mythos) pinko punks in Hollywood is anything but a real man. John Wayne in a rain of bullets.

- --Phil

This one goes to the Duke because of one little word: mutation.

As many people know, Wayne was exposed to massive doses of radiation while shooting The Conqueror downwind from an atomic test site. And everyone knows the effect radiation has on actors. Normal people keel over and die, but actors mutate, usually grotesquely. That's why Wayne ended his career and faked his death. Even the thick padding and makeup he wore for The Shootist couldn't hide his increasingly inhuman appearance. In the years since, it's only gotten worse.

So when Eastwood steps onto that main drag, he won't be facing a pudgy, grizzled old gunfighter. No, looming over him will be a thirty- foot-tall heap of diseased flesh, dripping with unnameable fluids and stinking like a combination hog farm/chicken processing plant. The creature sprouts limbs and heads from every conceivable place, and several not so conceivable, and is well equipped with claws, fangs, and multicolored scales with the tensile strength of battleship plate. "Hearrrrd yuh was lookihh fuh me, pihl-grimm," slurs the misshapen monstrosity.

Victory comes to the Nuked Duke not in the clean, manly snap of six- shooters, but in a horrific spasm of rending and tearing that leaves the street looking as if someone ran amok with a fire extinguisher full of crimson paint. A tear of reminiscence leaks from one of the mutant's compound eyes -- or perhaps it's just a stray drop of Eastwood's internal fluids -- as it lumbers off into the sunset.

- Shem

I'm taking issue with the notion that Wayne's presence in musicals is symptomatic of his being a softie. In fact, you've got things backwards -- the musicals made wayne *crazy*, adding to his bloodlust and bitterness over time.

See, cause just when he'd be all, "gee, i'm getting a little bit tired of doing westerns, maybe i'd like to do an adaptation of some book of the month club selection about a woman's search for love and covered bridges," his agent or studio would force him into a movie with dean martin the singing idiot cowboy or something. Anyone who's seen Rio Bravo could not help but notice that El Duke grows angrier and angrier and crazier and crazier as the film progesses -- who wouldn't, with Martin singing about 'dogies', as though the guy's ever even *seen* a dogie, when what we *should* be doing is going out and killing some freaking train robbers or something!

Point of story, wayne's musicals did not belie some hidden softness, rather they served to buttress his manly resolve and inspire him to practice his aim.

Clint? He would have done well to try out for Hoffman's role in Tootsie, or star in a broadway revival of Cabaret or something during the eighties if he wanted to have any hope of retaining his desire to kill. Now, at an age when Wayne was really starting to freak out about Reds and the green berets and stuff, Eastwood is putzing around with washed-up actresses trying to make a guy version of Steel Magnolias. You just can't keep up the sort of rough and rugged intensity of Wayne *without* a few musicals to keep you focused on the enemy.

Wayne, hands down.

- HQuinn

The first casualty is going to be Hotbranch, anyone who would suggest the Duke is a "poofter" is going to be shot by both fighters.

No matter how pissed Clint is he's not going to tolerate the trashing of an American icon. After they drop Hotbranch Charelton Heston will part the two gun men like the red sea by pointing out the real enemy- gun-grabbing congress men like Ted Kennedy! together they will storm Washington.

P.S. The Duke is tougher because Clint mainly killed Italians in his weterns and the only people they can beat are the French.

- Claymore

A few general thoughts:

1. Speaking for all the heterosexual actors and singers out there, we are all insulted that you would equate being in a musical with emasculation. Shame on you Brendan.

2. How can a musical made in the 70's be proof of being emasculated by the 90's? Brendan needs to take a closer look at the timeline.

3. "Paint your wagon" was not a "freakin'" musical it was a Broadway musical translated to the silver screen.

A few specific thoughts:

1. "Paint Your Wagon" is a popular stage musical. John Wayne's musicals were and are unknowns. Advantage Eastwood.

2. The Duke's westerns were Literary not Historical. In history the bad guys sometimes win. In literature the bad guys always lose. Advantage Wayne.

3. I like Wayne better than Eastwood. Advantage Wayne.

- Hatter

Brendan, Brendan, Brendan. Shame on you for desecrating the almighty, omnipotent RAGE!(tm)You have obviously never felt the raw power of a pissed hockey player. I have seen a 5 foot center get clotheslined by a monster defenseman, then get back up and beat the living stuff out of him. Any true hockey (or any other contact sport, for that matter) fan knows that you ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT break up a RAGE induced fight. Like the old saying goes, Hell hath no fury like a hockey player scorned.

- some rage-induced hockeyplayer/caveman

I gotta go with Eastwood here folks, and I will tell you why... It is because he has the balls to go all the way. The Duke you see is from a time where wanton violence on the screen was saved for people who weren't white, or were bad guys. There is no way the Duke is going to kill a good guy.

On the other hand, The Man With No Name will kill anything that moves in a way he doesn't like, especially if there is money involved. It is true that he will only kill the bad guy, but I think his moral fiber is a little thinner than that of the Duke's.

On the note of Eastwood being emasculated... didn't we say that we would allow the Duke to be taken when he died, in the past. Thus we must at least take Eastwood when he played The Man With No Name, in the past. He was no wussy then he was a man to be reckoned with, and the Duke has a reckoning coming to him when he messes with Dirty Harry!


From a female perspective Eastwood defintely comes out the winner. He has a certain appeal which makes him highly doable, and therefore omnipotent. The only people who would do Wayne are 50+ overweight housewives. One can visualize Wayne suffering a coronary from a lifetime of bacon fat which is noticeable in his paunch, which surely throws out his back form time to time. I can see Wayne popping a Pepcid AC and buying Eastwood a beer before gathering up the strength or energy for a duel.

- Notevenclose

Well, as we all know from classic Gunslinger movies, as the two combatants square off in a tension-packed head to head shootout, they are required, by the Laws of the Western Movie (tm) to spout macho insults and intimidating phrases upon one another. This will be the key to this battle.

Clint Eastwood fixes The Duke with an icy glare, and ever-so-calmly inquire to the Duke's opinions on chance: "Do you feel lucky, punk?" Then he coolly states that his weapon of choice, the ol' .357 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, "can blow a man's head clean off."

The Duke wobbily attempts to make sense of this in his permanently drunken stooper, and in his famous drawl hearkens back to some American History, with his talk of "Pilgrim" over and over. Now, as anyone who has ever seen a John Wayne movie can attest, anything he says takes a L-O-N-G time for him to say, a la the infamous Cap'n Jim Kirk; not for pausing (that's Shatner's thing), but just because he talks so damn slow. He uses this to his advantage, however, as he slowly withdraws his trusty pistol undetected, as Clint carefully listens to these drawn-out sentences, and let's the Dirty One have it.

Basically, Wayne is a winner due to his abnormal speech patterns. Nobody said this had to be a FAIR fight......

- Adam B.

For the record, Eastwood's "weapon of choice" is the .44 Magnum, not some peashooting .357... - Eds.

I predict this will be one of the closest matches in WWWF history. I'm sure others are as torn as I am in selecting between them. Both these men capture the very essence of studness. Dammit, there just aren't enough of real men left! Seems all we have now are those pretty-boy-silk-panty-wearing-slap-fighting-moist-towelette-using-no- red-meat-eating-low-fat-salad-dressing-on-the-side guys like Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt. Clint and The Duke are MEN, and settle things like MEN: Head on, with Hungry Man-size portions of violence, bloody knuckles, and Big Iron. I picked Clint, just for the fact that I've seen him off more guys than The Duke has.

(Duke, though I chose you not my champion, yet I mourn for thee.)

- -K

The "John Wayne is Dead" spiel is a load of irrelevant hokey that no self-respecting WWWF voter would invoke because Neither are immortal. If the Duke was still alive, he'd be in his eighties or ninties so he'd be easy pickings for Eastwood, but that's not what we want.

Now, on to the matter at hand. The only way for him to survive The Alamo is to be DIGITALLY BASTARDIZED (TM) by disney! Nuff said. In The Shootist, he was dying of cancer anyway, so he wanted to die with dignity. He got his wish. Nuff said. In what I had seen of his films he showed a simple philosophy of life, an element lacking in Eastwood's work. This shows intelligence. The Duke also took roles where he knew he was doomed to die. This shows that he doesn't fear death. This makes him potentially more savage than Eastwood.

The Duke will make Eastwood's day his last!

- Lurch

Starting out, I'd have to say that John Wayne is the original and best. Nobody ever named their future social problem "Clint Eastwood Gacy." "Clint Eastwood Bobbit." Didn't happen. And Clint made those movies with the monkeys. But that isn't the real reason I voted for the Duke.

John Wayne takes getting shot better. I don't think either of these two squinting gunmen are going to miss on the first shot. I think they're going to hit. Now Clint Eastwood can take a beating, an arm-breaking, a cigarette burn, what have you, but if he stops an actual bullet it takes him weeks of sitting around looking sullen and smoking to get back into shape. There's no RAGE[tm]. Pouting, maybe.

Shoot John Wayne, it doesn't even make him mad. This is the man who defined, "Just a flesh wound." It took nuclear weapons to take him down in the end - filming in Alamagordo, NM. to be specific.

One last point: John Wayne never had to come back from the dead to finish a fight. Either he won, or he died like a good loser and didn't come around afterwards causing trouble.

- Yankee Varmint

When was the last time anyone saw Clint Eastwood miss? I believe it was in "Two Mules for Sister Sarah", and he was too busy lookin at Shirley Maclaine's Bootae! (WHich was pretty fine back then, but I digress...) I'll also remind you, that the target was a clump of dynamite 200 yards away, and clint had a bad arm, so he used Maclaine's shoulder as a rest! (He made the shot on the second or third attempt!) The Duke misses all the time! He's old! Also, there's the brutality factor. (no TM, I hate that Sh*t.) The Duke never just guns people down. Clint has been known to do that. If John Wayne was going to get super pissed off and hurt someone he was going to use his fists. That's like taking a bundt cake to a nuke fight. "Ol' Deadeye" Eastwood will fill the Duke so full of lead, that the US government will make a new educational video "John Wayne: The 82nd Element and You." This one will be over before you can say: "Marion."

- -Stoopid Gold

Both steel-eyed warriors engage in the ritual stare-down, each probing the other for the slightest change in attention. Both are ready to kill and, if necessary, die at a moments notice.

Suddenly, a "Short" man dressed in a Mariachi player's costume is thrown through the window of Jessie's Saloon, landing amid broken glass between the two combatants. He dusts himself off and says:

"That's the last time I ask for a virgin bloody mary from this establishment!"

Clint: I know you! You're Ned Nederlander!

John: Ned Nederlander?!? You are my favorite star of the silver screen!

Clint: Every morning, I would practice my quick draw for hours trying to be as fast as my idol, Ned.

Ned: Really! Well thank you! I'm touched! Truly! By the way would you happen to know where I can find a phone? I need to ger in touch with my agent. You see, me and my friends met this man called "El Guapo..."

John: He was my idol too...until I heard about the trick photography they use.

Clint: I was crushed. My hero was a fake. You hurt me Ned. I reckon I'll have to kill you now.

Ned: Kill me!?! But every Western uses trick photography. C'mon John! How many times did you ride your horse past that same rock over and over again?

Clint: He knows!

John: You better not make a habit of saying that too often, and once more will be too often!

Ned: And Clint, how many bullets do you have in that 6-shooter? 20? 30? Apparently, reloading wasn't in the dictionary yet...

Clint: That's it! Draw!

As John and Clint draw simultaneously, Ned shrieks "DEAR LORD!!!" and ducks. John and Clint shoot each other dead. Ned looks around and says, "I give up! No more of these Westerns for me. From now on, I am dedicating my life to one thing...Clog Dancing!

And so, Ned Nederlander fades away from Hollywood, and into obscurity. Although I heard he's really big in Europe.

- Budo, Amigo #4

After making "The Bridges of Madison County" the only humane thing for the Duke to do would be to put Clint out of his misery. Its no different than shooting a horse with a broken leg or a rabid dog, except no one would question the horse's or dog's masculinity. As for this whole John Wayne is dead thing, have you looked at Clint lately? He makes the Crypt Keeper look like the Dancing Baby. If the Duke is Dead, Clint is the Undead. Eastwood's "Westerns" (quotes denote sarcasm) were written by Japanese authors and directed by Italians. In "Kelly's Heroes", Clint ends up splitting the gold with the Krauts. This sounds a lot like the Axis to me. And who has kicked more Axis butt than the Duke? Anybody that thinks Clint would win this fight can go paint your wagon!


Clint is the clear winner here. Regarding the rise in violent crime in the past decade or two, the blame rests squarely upon violence in recent movies and television programs (or so I hear). John Wayne hasn't made a movie in the past two decades, while Clint Eastwood has made a few. Therefore, John Wayne couldn't be violent and Clint Eastwood must be violent. Since you can't win a gunfight without violence, John Wayne can't win.

Plus, in the pictures displayed for this match, Eastwood is already firing (and has a cool hat) while Wayne isn't even aiming yet (and no cool hat). I guess the Duke is a bit slow these days (and cool-hatless).

More important than any of that gibberish is that it's about time there were a mortician at the ready in a Grudge Match. (The "History" section was starting to smell.) Thanks for being responsible.

- -Mark Wentz

Until someone tells me otherwise, I'm going to have to assume this match is taking place in 1998.

Eastwood has women falling off of him after he proved he had a sensitive side in The Bridges of Madison County, but doesn't have the support that he'd have if this match was taking place around the time of Unforgiven. Most of America lost all respect for him when he spent a whole movie romancing Meryl Streep and didn't shoot anyone; while seduction and adultery is all well and good, that just can't compete with shooting a couple of thousand people right in the head with the most powerful handgun in the world.

Wayne, on the other hand, is pissed off after being taken out of the cryogenic storage facilities under the Pentagon, thawed, and being given the cure for cancer. As anyone who's paying attention knows, politically incorrect old-school men with guns will beat the living shit out of PC new-school New Age guys who don't like guns every time, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Eastwood is going out to die, and he knows it.

Fortunately, Eastwood will never have to fight Wayne. By the time Wayne's gotten to the battlefield, it'll have gotten out to the public that Wayne is once again alive. Suddenly, a drooling mob of American Indians, Mexicans, and their lawyers will descend upon Wayne, waving lawsuits and frothing at the mouth at the chance to revenge themselves. For years, they've watched this gun-wielding WASP shooting Native Americans and Latinos without number on the Late Late Show...

...and finally, without ever thinking once of changing the channel, they've begun to feel oppressed. Clearly, it's time to sue somebody, anybody, it doesn't matter who. There's mental anguish at stake.

Wayne will respond to this the best way he knows how--he will shoot every last one of the sons of bitches. Unfortunately, sheer weight of numbers will drag him down, and Eastwood gives an exhausted Wayne one in the back of the head execution-style before going off to talk Meryl Streep into another Commandment-breaking shag.

- Wanderer

Only Don King would ever manage to get these two together. I vote that they both shoot him for the good of humanity.

- King

Okay. Let's start with the basics. Firepower.

Wayne died some time ago. He hasn't got the experience with the newer firearms that Eastwood does. And since this (mis?)match is ostensibly taking place in the current day, Wayne will still be looking at his gun like a chimp at a Pentium while Eastwood ventilates his brainpan.

Furthermore, even if the rules do say that Wayne's death doesn't influence the battle, we're ignoring another fact: Wayne's body isn't all that's dead. Eastwood is still in movies, while Wayne's CAREER is dead along with him. And as everybody knows, the only way to really get rid of a hero is to kill him off dramatically. Sorry, pal, but these days when people hear 'Wayne' they think 'and Garth'.

- Istanbul

Gentlemen, trying to determine which one of these men is the bigger bad-ass is a futile exercise at best. Both kicked mucho-ass in numerous Westerns, and while The Duke had more kick-assedness in war movies, Clint easily made up for it in his perp-smashing cop flicks. They both kick so much ass that to determine which one would kick more is like trying to determine who's more attractive: Angie Everhart or Kathy Ireland. They're both off the freakin' scale!!

During this battle, the men will be worn down. So we must analyze how the men performed at the weakest moments of their careers: starring roles in romantic movies.

John Wayne's best known and best romance was The Quiet Man. What kind of man was he in this film? Well, for starters, he was an ex-steel worker and ex- boxer that killed a man in the ring! And when it came time for romance, he saw what he wanted and went for it, even if it meant violating tradition and having to bust up a bed frame or two. And when that wasn't enough, he dragged that saucy bitch 5 miles (it's just a good stretch of the legs), threw her down, insulted her brother (played by Victor McLaglen, a veteran of two wars and a man that took heavyweight champion Jack Johnson to six rounds), and then whipped his arse up and down the Irish hillsides in a fight that even went through a bar! If that wasn't enough, The Duke then got piss drunk with Victor, took him home, and had that saucy bitch make dinner for the both of 'em! And this was a romance?

Clint, OTOH and as Brendan pointed out, starred in The Bridges of Madison County.

Let's ponder that thought a moment, shall we?

Clint Eastwood starred in The Bridges of Madison County.

This isn't even remotely close to any kind of manly romance like The Quiet Man. This film is the epitome of flower-pickin', park-walkin', handsome-cab-ridin', clothes-shoppin', mall-bench-sittin', Friday-night-movie-rentin', no-you-don't-look-fat-in-that, can't-we-just-cuddle, no-you-hang-up-first, why-yes-honey- I'd-love-to-watch-Beaches-again TRIPE!

So, in short, John Wayne could not have starred in The Bridges of Madison County. Clint Eastwood did star in The Bridges of Madison County. Therefore, Clint Eastwood will die.

- Brian (tm)

"Well, that weak seenareo has John Wayne mouthin' off last, so as far as I can member it while that there yeller goat herder's flappin' was jaws, Mr. Eastwood fires off all six shots in is gun. Five go toward mr. yellow belley, while the other un shoots some guy on a roof, who falls off and lands behind a stacka barrels.

Lucky for Mr. Wayne, there, he's been a big ol' fan of Mr. Eastwood's movies. He stumbled back a few feet, reached his hands beneath is shirt and pulls out a steel furnace cover. Mr. Eastwood flicks a cigarette on da ground and in is best tough-guy voice sez, "Shit". Then he dives for cover. Wayne fires off his entire ammo load, five at the barrel Eastwood hides behind, and one into some guy with a red scarf runnin' is horse through town, who falls off inna pile a horse crap.

Wayne went an' ducked behind a house an' reloaded. Eastwood was finished puttin' bullets in his gun, so went walking up the street looking for Mr. Wayne. Wayne finished puttin' bullets in his gun, sees Eastwood and fires off his iron at 'im. Lucky for Eastwood, the shot accidentally hits some guy gettin' thrown out of the bar instead.

Eastwood ducks into the bar, and goes out the back, sneakin' round on that Wayne fella. Wayne doesn't know whuts happenin', so he backs around the bar, too. Next thing I hear is about ten shots and a scream. We all ran back there to see both those guys on the ground, bleedin' to death, and that crazy doc holiday stumblin' round, smoke comin' from is pistols. He was shoutin' at both them dead fellers, saying, "I have two guns, one fer each of ya."

I never 'xpected to have ta be makin' two tombstones that day, so we buried eastwood first. It took a couple days ta make the second tombstone, and by that time Wayne had rotted a little bit. Ended up giving Eastwood the win by default, cuz he looked prettier when he went under."

- Excerpt from, "High Noon: Shoot-outs in the Old West" by Ernest Edward Cummings, Tombstoner Extraordinare

- - Some Dork

Ok, here's the facts as we know them. The Shootist and the man with no name are gonna shoot it out in an old-fashioned, no-holds-barred, gunfight to the death with the magical no-reload six-shooter rules in effect. This being known, it can easily be said that the match will end in a draw.

First of all, the shootist and the man with no name were relative good guys, and the good guy ALWAYS wins. In a fight to the death between two good guys, the good guys will always fight to a draw and realize that they were set up to fight each other and then go after the person who stacked the deck or killed the barkeep's cat and left the carcass in the room or some other random act of senseless violence. Thus said, after the magical six-shooter rule runs out, and the fisticuffs ensue, The shootist and the man with no name will here something totally irrelevent and start to talk about the problem. When they finally do that, they will realize that it was the good, old reliable man in the Black Hat (tm) that stacked the deck just to cause this fight. Eventually, they will track down Mr. Black Hat (tm), and finally riddle the hideout so full of bullet holes that Mr. Black Hat (tm) will have to surrender. And all was well, except for the 27 henchmen killed, 48 henchmen wounded, and fourteen innocent bystanders who just happened to get flesh wounds from the irrational ricochet's that abound in this sort of movie. Credits roll, the end.

- ExentriC: Not just one of your average homicidal maniacs.....

Okay, granted, this would be a tough match. As the son of two hardened western film fans, I have viewed pretty much every Eastwood and Wayne film ever made, so I feel quite qualified to decide.

Given, "Unforgiven" was a bit dissapointing plotwise, but the action sequences kicked ass, so I don't want to hear any whining about that. I think that what will give Mr. Eastwood the advantage is body armor, a la "A Fistfull of Dollars." I doubt that would even cross the slow-drawling Duke's mind. Add that to the fact that Clint has had plenty of time to practice his aim with several different types of handguns over numerous films. Which would you rather have: a Colt revolver, or a .44 AutoMag? Nuff said.

Besides, if it came down to a fist-fight, Clint's modernized street-fighting skills would allow him to easily avoid and counter the Duke's stiff-armed, slow-motion, "I'm old as shit and proud of it", pansy-assed punches.

End result: Clint Eastwood caps the Duke's low-down, dirty, cheatin' ass!

- The Stranger

I would like to start by mocking the participants' physical appearances. Our Man Clintıs skin tone resembles Samsonite luggage after it's been hurled around the gorilla cage by one of Clyde's cousins. Clearly the sun is no "Hang 'Em High" fan. Once, Clint was ON "Rawhide"; now he IS rawhide.

Admittedly, John Wayne's mug isn't winning any Miss Teen USA titles either. And his occasional topless scenes outdid the entire career of Hitchcock for pure cinematic horror. But at least Wayne's face is recognizably human. Clint Eastwood's face looks like an Ansel Adams photo. Good, bad and ugly need not be mutually exclusive.

Their respective decrepitudes do have some relevance to the outcome, and it comes down to pockets of resistance. Wayne's flabby, lumpy, saddlebag skin provides the final line of defense. Any bullet lodging in the Duke's sack-of-onions torso is just as likely to end up adrift in a love handle as pierce any vital organ. Conversely, Eastwood's burlap epidermis is pulled tighter than an Irishman on St. Patrick's Day. The first shot to penetrate Eastwood should cause the surface tension of his skin to pop, deflating him like the Bullwinkle balloon in the Macy's parade.

But, that's all presuming that a cliched six-shooter showdown is how this Grudge Match will be fought at all. Serious blunder. The reason why this alleged battle is all John Wayne has nothing whatsoever to do with ammo. It's intergalactic.

The critical element comes from looking at the John Wayne-directed "The Green Berets" (1968), in particular the final scene. The film ends after the Wayne-led special forces have routed the Cong. They bask in victory as the sun sets.... in the EASTERN sky. HUH? The Vietnamese come up big losers, on a planet that spins in any direction the Duke chooses? It's Wayne's World! Wayne's World!

Think about it. John Wayne's powers extend to personal control of history and the heavens. The celestial orb that provides light and life to our galaxy is but a plaything for Rooster Cogburn. This bears repeating. The same sun that turned Clint Eastwood's skin into Sister Sara's third mule is in John Wayne's hip pocket. Let's say for the sake of argument that Clint gets in one lucky shot, two, or even an entire Tet offensive. So what? It'll all be undone in the cosmic edit room by Director Duke. Against this unbeatable gambit, Thunderbolt the lightweight will barely have the time to feel his bowels going every which way but loose before taking the Nestea Plunge into the Dead Pool. (3 title references in one sentence; not bad, eh?)

Clint Eastwood's career has obviously gone on so long for one reason, and one reason only: because it is beneath the notice of the Duke. That all changes on this day. Lest we forget, John Wayne is the man whose career record against CANCER is a more than respectable 1-1.

The Man With No Name? Just another notch on the holster of the Man WIth Three Names (Marion/John/Duke). What a sad, sad premise for a Grudge Match. John Wayne should fear a guy who made a cameo as himself on "Mr. Ed"? That'll be the day.

- The King of Tonga

Fighting styles differ here. The Duke generally has a lot of cronies with him to provide backup, manly bonding or comic relief. Clint is a solo act; he simply materializes out of the desert and starts kicking ass.

DUKE: Awl right men, kin we...GIT our acts ta-gether and NAIL that son of a bitch?

KIRK DOUGLAS: What's in it for me? Campell should go.

GLEN CAMPBELL: I shouldn't be here.

DUKE: Can't argue with ya there. God-Damn sissy GIT-TAR strummin singer's all ya are. Now yer playin gunslinger against that EASTWOOD, and yer fixin ta die. Bob, doncha think you've had enough? Can ya shoot straight?

ROBERT MITCHUM: I'm so drunk I can see through time. You guys are the best damn friends I ever had, and I just wanna...


EASTWOOD: (Squints, holsters his pistols. Vanishes into the Monument Valley backdrop ala "Predator.")

- Ennio Morricone

This might be a battle of "real men", but it fails to take into account the women.

John Wayne has tamed Maureen O'Hara in the Quiet Man.

Clint Eastwood only tamed Meryl Streep.

Maureen O'Hara would kick Streep's whiney ass faster than you can chew and spit tobacco. After that she'ld kick Clints ass too.

Give this one to the Duke.

- G. Bob

In defense of subversion...

I was recently apprehended in the process of distributing "misinformation" -- ok, I was caught trying to fix the Eastwood vs. Wayne vote in favor of the Duke. But before anybody gets moralistic, let me remind everyone of a emblematic scene from an old Wayne film, "The Green Berets": A crowd of self righteous, cynical journalists had alleged many antipatriotic accusations against the Duke's soldiers and their involvement in Vietnam. How could we participate in such a conflict? The character holds up, one by one, Soviet made weapons which had been collected from the Viet Cong. Their argument: America had to use irregular methods to combat the Communist insurgency. Well, in this situation, Duke is again beset by adversaries all around. The vast Eastwood Conspiracy (TM), notorious for its alleged Carmel vote-rigging, has gained an unfair edge through an arsenal of Dirty Harry's old dirty tricks. Well, as Ollie North before me, I stand proud that I tried to throw a few extra votes for Wayne: a covert action, true -- but a covert action on behalf of an American hero (anthem begins to slowly play, images of a Virginia senatorial campaign come to mind). I may have cheated on a few votes, but think of the future generations that will be cheated if the rule of a .45 and witty one-liners can triumph over True Grit. Duke, even if they shoot you in the back, at the end of the flick, everybody will know who won ...

- Grudge Patriot

Place: The John Wayne Museum in Victoria, Texas.
Time: Saturday, 4:00 pm.

You are cordially invited to attend the gala opening of our new exhibit. With the recent passing of Roy Rogers, and the untimely spat between The Duke and one Mr. Eastwood, we, the curators of the John Wayne Museum, decided to steal a page from the mind of the late Roy Rogers, and have Clint Eastwood stuffed and mounted, much like Trigger. This exhibit will bring much attention to the John Wayne Museum, but it is clear that Mr. Eastwood never should have tangled with the Duke. Now, his stuffed carcass will forever be a testament to John Wayne's superiority.

And don't forget, we feature free pony rides for the kiddies, a live jug band, and a snack bar with real 100% Texas food, and a large supply of Pepto-Bismol. See you there, partner!

- 1/2 Nelson

Wow, a duel of the classic western stars. Well, I suppose "duel" is a bit misleading, as duel implies a fight, not a massacre. The outcome of this fight is forgone conclusion. While John Wayne is a pretty good westen hero, Clint Eastwood is great western rogue. While John Wayne usually fought for right and good, Clint fought for revenge and money. Clint robbed, callously murdered, raped, pillaged and even spit on poor defenseless dogs in his pursuit of victory. Clint would be more then willing to be utterly underhanded and devious to win. John's morals would encumber him just enough for Clint to get the drop on him. And even if by some incredible twist of fate, John did manage to kill Clint, we've already seen Clint's apparent ability to come back from the dead to gain revenge in the classic High Plains Drifter. It's just a no win situation for the Duke. There are two types of main characters in westerns, there's those who are Clint Eastwood and those who are dead.

- Aztech

"...This is Rich Heffler, CBS 3, reporting. Back to you, Bob."

"Thank you, Rich. Your report on the dangers of eating anthrax cookies was... helpful. Well, that's all for tonight. This is Bob Feller, saying... wait a minute. This just in. Apparently, there is a flood of some sort ravaging everything from Utah to California. Lets go to CBS news reporter Achin B. Acke. Achin? What's happening?"

<sssssssffffffffffssssshhhhhhttttt>"...and is consuming the greater area west of the rockies. To repeat, some sort of flood has broken out from an undetermined location and is consuming the greater area west of the rockies. Reports are sketchy..."<sssffffsshhht>" appears to be an extremely deadly substance that is killing everything in its path. We're getting a chemical readout on it--my god, it's testosterone. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, testosterone is flooding the west. Run for your lives. Lets go to Ed Echler to learn about the origin."

"Yes, achin, at approximately high noon today, John Wayne and Clint Eastwood appeared on a dusty street. After fifteen minutes spent glaring at each other and looking intimidating, they began firing. Scattered survivors report that testosterone almost instantly sprung from both of their chests and began liquifying everything in sight. Now all that's left is a raging river of testosterone that appears destined to wipe out everything west of the continental divide. It's approaching our position as we speak and...<sssssffffshht>"

- Puck

During his career, Clint Eastwood has made 60+ movies. John Wayne made 180. So much for that stamina advantage. It looks like Mr. Eastwood has a lot of free time on his hands. So what does he do with it? He becomes a politician. Oh, wow, I am *so* impressed. And he starred in and directed an episode of Amazing Stories, a show where fantasies became realities. So what was the personal fantasy he brought to life? Clint plays a painter who whenever he paints his dead wife, she appears doing whatever she is doing in the artwork. So, once he figures this out, what does he do? He paints her naked in bed and no doubt ravishes her with passion. That's a sissy fantasy. What a wi... WAIT A MINUTE...


Oh gross! Obviously, Mr. Eastwood is way too interested in necrophilia for his own good. No wonder he kills so many people for no good reason. When the camera's off, he's off to Boot Hill with a shovel to unearth poor ole Billy Bob and violate him in ways I don't even want to know. It wouldn't surprise me if the mortician has his special "rear access" coffin prepared for Mr. Wayne. This is also the best explanation why Dirty Harry's partners have the lifespan of a goldfish - he can spend more time down at the morgue to pick up babes.

With that type of motivation, there is no way in hell that John Wayne is going to lose this fight. Anyway, if these simpler folk of the Old West figure out the truth, they will either lynch him or he is going to be shot so many times, his remains will be washed away by a good urination. Or both. John Wayne rules supreme.

- Paul G.

The sun blazes high overhead as children and small animals scurry for hiding places.  Two men face off in the street, both eyeing each other carefully, waiting for the other to twitch.

Both Duke and Clint reach for their guns at the same time and it looks like it is going to be close enough for them both to take that "Last Stagecoach".

But wait! The laws of movie physics interfere!  Since both men are main good guy characters, neither one is allowed to take a fatal shot.

They are both hit a designated "good guy area" such as the arm.  Both men continue to shoot at one another, both taking an unbelievable (for a normal) amount of punishment since neither Duke nor Clint can miss, unless it is to allow the bad guy to get away at the beginning of the movie so that it doesn't end it 2 minutes.  The fight continues until both the Duke and Clint are so full of lead that they can not support there own weight anymore.

At this point Pollyana 1 and 2 resuce the men and attempt to nurse them back to health. Unfortunately for Clint, since he lives in a "realistic" western, he can die. And he does.

Of course, he goes very tragically and galliantly, after he stops the bandits from taking Pollyana 2's farm, when the exhaustion of hand to hand combat with 5 men makes him too weak to fight of the infections from the wounds he took from Duke.  The Duke, on the other hand, eats a nice heafty steak, spends a few days admiring Pollyana 1 and is back on his feet.

Or, in an alternate universe, Clint survives and the Duke dies from the infections he picks up off of Clint's dirty bullets since he has no immune system, never having had a need for one.

- Ohmu

People, people, let's look at the obvious here. The dispute in question was originally centered upon a woman. What is John Wayne's nickname? Duke. Obviously he must be a member of the British royal family, which is reknowned for many things, chastity not being among them. (The unfortunate nature of this phenomenon, exemplified by the way I shudder at the thought of Prince Charles procreating, will not be explored here.) Endowed with the same mysterious and frightening power as the rest of the royals, Eastwood's destiny led him to fight with a vigor that couldn't be reproduced without a woman at the finish line. I regret to report that Eastwood never had a Twinkie's chance in Drew Carey's kitchen.

- Longfellow's wench

"The Duke" may have been a crack shot, but a lot of times he did a lot of in close combat fighting....and a lot of fisticuffs.... Clint on the other hand, well... In any movie that I have seen, It's always been shoot first ask questions later.... So even if both men pulled their pistols out of their holsters at the same time, Clint's got the reaction factor a little faster then 'Duke' Wayne... After all Did the Duke fire five or Six bullets??? That's why Clint always counts his shots.... And "Duke" isn't feelin' lucky punk!

- Tucson Coyote

The Final Word


Inscribed on John Wayne's tombstone: "He felt lucky"

- Tristan "Forget 911, I dial 357" Pratt

If you liked this match, check out these other past matches:

Dirty Harry v. Shaft
High Stakes Poker
Caine, the geriatric Kung Fu fighter v. Walker, the washed-up Texas Ranger

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