World Wide Web Fights presents

WWWF Logo by Dan Willis

The Setting

It was the dawn of the third age of mankind. A five mile long Earth Alliance space station known as Babylon 5 orbits the planet Epsilon 3. The year is 2260, and the great war with the Shadows has just been initiated. The battle rages immediately and much too quickly for Babylon 5. Sheridan and co. are caught unprepared and are scrambling about trying to muster up defenses. Their only hope is that Drall can save them and Sheridan sends down the help signal. The great machine releases a gigantic blast of energy into the closest Shadow, destroying it . The rest of the shadows begin to back off and reorganize their attack into a planetoidal destructive position. Drall initiates a tachyon pulse to open a time gate in between the Shadows and Epsilon 3. The Shadows instinctively try to phase into hyperspace to avoid the gate and, unfortunately, collide with an incoming Centauri War Cruiser, creating a massive explosion inside the time gate turning it into a massive wormhole. The wormhole begins to pull the surrounding space into it and eventually Babylon 5 is caught in the wake. Time and space distort themselves in every direction and then suddenly,... it all disappears and they are left orbiting the planet below. The planet however, is not Epsilon 3...

It is the twenty-fourth century. The planet is Bajor and the Federation is struggling to keep control over it. A deep space station under the command of Cpt. Benjamin Sisko orbits the planet. Their objective is to protect the citizens of Bajor from a first strike attack by the Dominion. Until today, no attack has ensued, but today the wormhole has opened up, and every large object has emerged from the center of it. Estimated length: 5 miles long. The configuration is unlike anything they've seen before. A quick scan shows the specifications and it is quickly concluded that they are armed to the teeth. Scans also reveal an area inside the station where their scans will not penetrate. Since there is no response from a hail, it can only be the Founders. It is the attack they've been waiting for and now they must perform their duty and defend their post. Sisko immediately summons a red alert and motions Worf to power up the Defiant.

On board Babylon 5, sensors can detect a very strange looking station orbiting the same planet they are. There are no other ships in the area and Sheridan assumes this "thing" must have destroyed them. On a closer approach, there are other ships in the area, but they are all of an unknown configuration and appear to be friends with the station. The spiny look of the station leaves no mistake though, it must be shadows. Sheridan gives the order to launch all fighters.

Babylon 5 Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

Babylon 5


Deep Space Nine

The Commentary

Brian & Steve are on vacation and will return for the next match!
In the meantime, please welcome Kurt D. Armbruster (of Canada) and
Darren Arcuri (also of Canada) as Guest Commentators(tm)

Kurt: O.K., the answer is obvious to anyone who watches both shows. Babylon 5 will blow DS9 straight back to Cardassia. Babylon 5 is loaded to the teeth with everything from PPG cannons, defense plasma cannons, starfurry squadrons, the white star, various transports with their own defenses, and above all that... one bigass BFG 9000 (similar to that last weapon you get in Doom). It is an Earth Alliance station, not a federation station, and the Earth Alliance trusts no one. They designed this baby to withstand any attack. Also, the B5 crew is NOT afraid of a fight and the B5 crew fights with spirit. The Federation knows only their duties, and fighting is always desired to be their last option. In other words, the Federation is nothing more than a group of spandex wear'n drones who follow orders and can't make decisions for themselves.

Also, Sheridan is a much cooler captain. He doesn't flinch, no matter what the odds are against him. Taking on opposition that's in theory tougher than him only encourages him to fight more. The last major battle that Sisko faced was against the Borg, and he abandoned ship and got the f_ck out of Dodge. Sheridan was the only human to destroy a Minbari Cruiser at the Battle of the Line. He is the only being outside the Vorlons in a thousand years to destroy a Shadow ship. I'm pretty sure he won't be afraid of a couple slow moving tug boats, also known as Federation starships, that fly in only two dimensions. B5 ships are fast moving, can turn on a dime, and utilize 3-D space whenever possible. They'll make mince meat out of the Federation ships before ol' quivering Sisko can realize he's no longer on Spencer for Hire.

Darren: First, how dare you say ol' Tron boy is cooler than Sisko. Sisko may still act like Hawk from Spencer for Hire but the man IS cool. He's got the voice, he's got the look, and he's got the attitude. If you'd ever watch a DS9 episode you'd know that Sisko is a man who loves to stand up against threatening opposition. And, he's been in plenty of wars since that unfortunate incident with the Borg.

Secondly, I'll give you the maneuvering abilities of the B5 armada, but it will all prove useless. Federation ships have one feature that will make all B5 ships obsolete... shields. Let your Starfuries come. While they're busy firing on the runabouts, Worf and the Defiant will swoop in and release their arsenal on an unsuspecting 20 to 30 pilots. Hell, the Defiant alone could take out Babylon 5. It has rapid fire phasers, photon torpedos, QUANTAM torpedos, and lets not forget the cloaking device. They can fly in undetected, decloak, and release a whole world of hurt on the poor inhabitants of Babylon 5. But if you would really like to compare firepower between the stations, I will remind you of the episode "The Way of the Warrior part II" in which an enormous Klingon fleet attacked DS9, but soon found themselves at the mercy of 5000 photon torpedos and hundreds of phaser arrays. DS9 is no helpless target. They can fight, oh yes, they can fight.

Lastly, I'd like to also point out that DS9 is being orbited by cloaked Klingon warbirds. They are on the lookout for a Dominion attack which they believe the federation cannot handle on their own. Babylon 5 will emerge in the center of a Klingon battle fleet, and we all know how vicious and relentless the Klingons are. They'll beam aboard Babylon 5 and go to town with blood thirsty Batleths and disrupters set to kill. And they won't stop until everyone is dead. Too bad Kosh is gone.

Kurt: Yes, it is too bad that Kosh is gone. Not that it matters though. There may not be a Vorlon ship on board (currently), but don't forget that the White Star uses Vorlon technology (which is why DS9 couldn't scan it), and any phasers fired at the White Star will be absorbed by the skin. That leaves only the meaningless, easy to avoid torpedos that the federation simply fires at random with. Shields may be useful, but I would love to see them compare to Jumpgate technology. I doubt that DS9 would know what to do if the White Star opened a jump gate right beneath the habitat ring. The Defiant might be able to do a little damage to B5, but if it doesn't protect DS9, the White Star WILL destroy it.

Also, the Klingons are not a threat. Babylon 5 has Narn Batt Squads who are as eager to fight as any Klingon Warrior. But the fight won't happen anyway. As you'll recall, Gowron is a changling (See, I do watch that show), and I doubt he'll pass the chance to help a new ally take out DS9 once and for all.

Darren: Indeed this is one crazed fight on our hands. Deep Space 9 vs. Babylon 5, the Defiant vs. the White Star, Sisko vs. Sheridan, Klingons vs. Narn. Indeed there is a lot to consider, but never forget... THE FEDERATION ALWAYS WINS. It's in the actors' contracts with Paramount. "The crew of DS9 will remain onboard until the fifth movie is released". Only minor characters are lost from the DS9 universe. Rick Berman has scheduled too many conventions for the actors. J. Michael Straczynski writes each B5 episode with realism in mind, and that means that in wars, people die. Sometimes even main characters. It has happened on the show before and JMS has stated that it will happen again (Ha, I follow B5 as well). Thus, in a battle between people who can't die vs. people who could, there can be only one (not THE ONE) choice. B5 is doomed and Sheridan better start looking for a Scarecrow and Mrs. King reunion.

The Results

Babylon 5 (1421)


Deep Space Nine (932)

Current Match | Related & Similar Matches
History Section | Tell a friend about this match

Voter Comments


This is probably the biggest grudge match the WWWF has ever hosted! My vote: B5 in a squeaker.

The breakdown: The scope of this clash is just to big to sum up in a few short phrases. Below is an analysis of each position:

Captain Sisko vs. Captain Sheridan:

Sisko: Darren is right. Sisko has the voice. He also has a relationship with a known traitor to the Federation.

Sheridan: Kurt is right. Sheridan is known for taking a defensive force and turning it into an offensive weapon. He also has a relationship with an ambassador who rarely tells the whole truth.

Advantage: EVEN

Major Kira vs. Commander Ivanova:

Kira: Kira is a strong female character and thus has overcome the barriers imposed by the Trek franchise. A monumental accomplishment.

Ivanova: Ivanova is a strong female character who has risen from the lowly minions in the pilot to become Second in Command. She is also God.

Advantage: B5

Londo Mollari vs. Morn: Mollari:

Londo spends considerable time at the bars spouting off about the grand days of the Old Republic, driving everyone crazy.

Morn: Morn spends considerable time at the bars saying abolutely nothing, driving everyone crazy.

Advantage: EVEN

Dr. Bashir vs. Dr. Franklin:

Bashr: Graduated second in his class and has cured many strange diseases, as well as running an effecient medical facility.

Franklin: His drug addiction nearly killed a patient and forced him to resign.

Advantage: DS9

Mr. Worf vs. Mr. Garibaldi (Worf really is a security chief, after all!)

Worf: Worf consistently gets beaten in every fight. He is an officer who, after nearly resigning from Starfleet, is trying to start over. He is also a Klingon.

Garibaldi: Garibaldi has been shot in the back and contemplated suicide. He is an officer who, after nearly ruining his career with alcohol, is trying to start over. He is also an Italian.

Advantage: B5

Constable Odo vs. Ambassador Delenn:

Odo: Odo does not have the ability to change shape anymore, but has extensive experience dealing with that small-time con artist Quark.

Delenn: Delenn can use her triluminary to transform Sisko into some sort of lobster-like creature.

Advantage: B5

DS9 Writers vs. B5 Writers:

DS9 Writers: Brannon Braga is one of the chief writers for DS9.

B5 Writers: JMS is one of the chief writers for B5.

Advantage: B5

Star Trek: CONTINUUM vs. The Lurker's Guide:

Star Trek: CONTINUUM: Appears to only contain information about very recent episodes, limiting the crew's ability to learn from history.

The Lurker's Guide: Contains full synopses of every episode, comments from JMS and weekly fan polls of the new episodes. This allows the crew to learn from their past actions as well as get inside information from the creator and fans.

Advantage: B5

Paramount vs. Warner Brothers:

Paramount: Paramount's relentless promotion of "the franchise" has caused a degradation of the quality of the various Star Trek shows. This shows their utter incompetence.

Warner Brothers: Warner Borthers has shown little or no interest in promoting Babylon 5 and has refused to release videos in the U.S. This shows their utter incompetence.

Advantage: EVEN


DS9 has Ensign Red Shirts to throw at the enemy. B5 has Narns to throw at the enemy. B5 has Starfury fighters to wreak havoc on DS9 and the Defiant, as well as Thunderbolt Starfuries to bomb Bajor, diverting valuable resources from DS9. DS9 has Runabouts...okay, Starfuries nullify all DS9 advantages up to this point. DS9 has shields. B5 has armor...okay, shields nullify all B5 advantages up to this point.

Advantage: EVEN

Conclusion: It seems as though the outcome is going to depend on who writes the script. Since JMS has a Hugo for "The Coming of Shadows," he is chosen to write it and B5 emerges victorious.

- David Greene

ROTW (tm) Silver Medal Winner (tm)

. . . For a time, it seemed as if the Chief's skills at Treknobabble and Dax's usual fortuitously timed inspirations might enable DS9 to achieve a stalemate. But then, Delenn raced into C&C and whispered into Sheridan's ear the most dire of all the secrets she had been withholding from her allies in the Army of Light. "Ivanova!" cried Sheridan. "Access Draal's holographic system! NOW!" The commander responded with practiced discipline (it's a Russian thing), and in no time the system was on-line. After a quick scan, it was ready to transmit Sheridan's words to every corner of the known galaxy. The captain knew the power of his message required no baroque oratory. Six words--six little words transmitted throughout the galaxy--were all that the situation required. And so the message spread through the galaxy, instantly translated into every known language by the Great Machine deep within Epsilon 3. Thus, it came to pass that the diverse inhabitants of a thousand civilizations united together in one glorious cause. For the sake of that cause ancient rivalries, blood feuds, and wars that had dragged on for millenia were abruptly put aside. Narns allied with Centauri; Shadows joined with Vorlons; and Light embraced the Dark. An encyclopedic array of species united as one, trained all its awesome weaponry upon DS9, and reduced it to atoms, and its atoms to their component particles, and their particles to their component quarks. And only a fear of particle-of-the-week Treknobabble kept the galactic alliance from proceeding further. In the days that followed, Delenn presented Sheridan with a triangular bronze plaque that he mounted permanently beside his post in C&C. A simple plaque, inscribed in handsome script with the six fateful words that had ensured his victory--the six words that had instantly unified all against their hated rival:

"Wesley Crusher is hiding on DS9"

- s-orso

ROTW (tm) Bronze Medal Winner (tm)

DS9 will kill B5. Why? The one factor you forgot - time. It'll take the B5 crew MONTHS to fight DS9. First, there'll be four episodes where they see the battle coming. Then the psychic squad guys will try to spy on everyone. Then the shadows will make an aliance with some Mimbari or somebody and that'll take an episode and a half. Hell, it'll take Sheridan two episodes just to give the big speech to the crew before the battle. DS9 will do the whole thing in 50 minutes AND O'Brian and Keiko will argue and reconcile AND Worf will try to kill himself AND Quark will smuggle something that ends up helping the war effort AND Bashir will do nothing while loudly proclaiming he's "A Doctahh." No contest. The Federation has no time for serialized plots.

- Loss Leader

I think this will be a close match, but the winner will be: The Defiant. I guess that means DS9 will be "technically" the winner. Here's how I see the scenerio:

Babylon 5: They come through the Wormhole. Sheridan looks out and sees DS9. It's a big spiny looking thing that is OBVIOUSLY a Shadow outpost.

DS9: Sensors detect a big mother exiting the wormohle. Sisko has no clue what's going on because he is off shaving his head, eyebrows, armpits, and everything else with hair on it. Kira is on the bridge and says (in the traditional Star Trek fashion), "Hail them."

B5: (Exact same moment) Sheridan says, "Nail them." B5 starts letting out barrages of fire.

DS9: Odo: They are preparing to fire! (Somehow all people in the Star Trek Universe know when something is about to fire) AAaaaaghhh!!!!!! (Odo dies) Dax: "What the hell is that? It looks like somebody tried to RENDER 3-D artwork?!? HAHAHAHAHA, No one has been stupid enough to do that since the late 20th century." (90% of all Star Trek plots have to do with the late 20th century, why should this be any different?)

B5: Sheridan: "Deploy the fighters."

DS9: Sisko, who has finished shaving all the poodles on the station, finally realizes they are being attacked. He runs to bridge and sees lots of tiny fighters coming out from the huge station outside. "It's a dominion attack! Battlestations." Kira: "Should we raise shields?" Sisko: "Excuse me, I have to go say goodbye to all the cute smugglers." Kira: Aaaaaaaaaghhh!!! (Dies as a chunk is taken out of DS9) Worf runs to the Defiant and grabs O'brien on the way. They cloak and go out into battle. Dax gets on a runabout.

B5: Sheridan watches as his fighters go down like flies to the Federation runabouts. The runabouts have shields, and are able to blast the fighters to pieces without taking much damage. The Defiant continues to cruise around destroying fighters by the dozen. Klingon Ship: (cloaked) Klingon Captain: "Attack!" All the Klingon ships de-cloak and begin to blast the hell out of B5.

DS9: Quark: I wonder if I can gain some profit fr..AAAAAAAaaaaaghhh!!!!!! (Promenade explodes) Dax's runabout's shields go down,.the fighters blast it. Dax escapes by transporting onto B5.

B5: Dax appears there, and finds herself amidst 1765 Klingons who have also transported over, in an attempt to take it. Dax quickly grabs a Bat-Leth and goes into battle with the Klingons, who are all easily killed in the first 2.3 seconds of the battle because they are used to Star Trek hand to hand combat. When they are faced with a real battle they are quickly disposed of by one (count 'em, ONE) Narn.

Defiant Bridge: O'brien: "Oh, no DS9's gonna blow" KA-BOOOM!!! DS9 explodes after taking way too much damage from B5. Worf growls. They cloak and prepare for another attack, this time on the B5 itself.

B5: Sheridan (noticing the Defiant cloaking) "OH MY GOD! IT JUST DISAPPEARED! IT'S A GHOST SHIP!" He turns to the nearest officer and says, "Hold me." to which the officer replies, "Only if you hold me." B5 now begins to shoot at Klingon warships who, because of a malfunction something or other are blown up on the first hit. The Defiant swoops in for another run, and de-cloaks. Then it blasts holes in B5 with that auto-phaser cannon thingy it's got. After three strafing runs, B5 is space dust. The only people to survive the battle are Worf and O'brien, who is able to take all the debris from the fight and re-make DS9 in a matter of weeks. Worf takes over as the commanding officer, and prepares the station for the Jem H'adar.

- Some Dork

Well... finally we get down to brass tacks. Of course, I vote for DS9. I will outline several reasons for this vote:

1. (no, not THE ONE) DS9 uses a proven production company and is part of a successful 30 year old scenario.

2. DS9 has an engineer who knows what he is doing. It's easy enough for O'brien to beam over to the stick ship and lay a few phaser blasts on the fusion reactor. Kira can go with him, and paste a few of those silly frog/lizard Narn guys just for fun. Besides, O'Brian will just modulate the phaser banks to a setting that'll make a black sheep out of the white ship. Also, he has on numerous episodes been seen using a club/spanner on people and machines. I figure Miles could whip up on the whole command staff of B5 without blinking an eye. He's tough; he's withstood physical and mental torture multiple times (he's even been killed once and recovered without the help of a doctor). He also knows how to throw darts exceptionally well, as does Bashir.

3. Speaking of Bashir, DS9's doctor has performed miracles on aliens "never before seen in Federation databanks". If worse comes to worse, Bashir will just offer to resuscitate some of those deceased "main characters" that B5 kills off. Scarecrow...uh...Sheridan will be so thrilled to get his buddies back that he'll shut down his weapons and throw a party at Quark's.

4. Speaking of Quark's, what do they do for fun on B5? I mean, no "dabo"? No "darts"? No "Morn"? Come on, B5 just can't compete in the entertainment arena.

5. Speaking of entertainment, does anybody on B5 know how to play baseball? By now, the entire complement on DS9 has been suckered into a holo-baseball game with Sisko. Since this is such a big battle, surely the DS9 gang will propose a "best 3 of 5" series with the B5 folk.

6. Last, but not least, there's Worf. That's right (all snickering aside), Worf. He may have been thrown out of Klingon society (not once, not twice, but three times). He may have been whipped up on by every alien ever seen on ST:TNG. He may have been actually killed (3 or 4 or 5 or 6 times, but only on TNG, never on DS9; that's O'brien's job). He may have been in love with a half-Romulan teenager, a half-Human ambassador, and a half-Betazoid psychiatrist. He may even have hair that's way too long. With all of this, Worf is still way too cool to let some wimpy group like the misfit rebels on B5 to beat him. He's beaten the Borg, he single-handedly beat the entire Klingon Empire, he even beat up on a Federation Starship last season. Besides all that, he won the Federation wide Bat'leth competition three years running (i think) in multiple dimensions.

So, with just these six attributes, DS9 obviously whips up on B5. If you disagree, you obviously are under 17 and nearsighted.

- Tom Stewart

When the first captain of B5 was taken through time, he also jumped into this situation, witnessed what happened, and when he went back in time to become Valen, he documented this event along with the shadow war. So when the Minbari ships come over, Delen knows the outcome and has prepaired for it by bringing 2000 real telepaths (unlike the wimpy betazoids) and the telepaths will instruct the B5 team on the ememy's every move. Thus avoiding every offensive attempt by the federation or Klingon. One other thing forgotten. Kosh may be dead, but if you read the Luker's guide the B5 you will find that a new Vorlon has replaced Kosh in the first episod of the new season. This Vorlon will appear to the Klingons as Kaless (not the wimpy fake one, but the one who truely has come back from Stovocore) and to the bajorians as the prophets. To which everyone will stop fighting each other. Then they will turn toward the gamma quadrant. The telepaths will find the founders and everyone will kick their royal butt. The Vorlon will appear to the Dominion and free them from the White and convert them to sacrifice themselves to fight the shadows. So everyone will hightail it back to Eplisilon 3 space, find the shadows, kick their hinny, and we will be left with Morden's head on a post with Vir waveing his fingers in front of Morden's dead expression.

- Alan Ridgeway

The battle would be horribly fantastic. Two factors, however, would soon become apperent. Shields and Transporters. Obrien: Sir, they have no shields!! Sisko: Geez they're worse than the Pakleds! Beam an antimatter storage unit over to their fusion generator. ...And before Sherridan could say "jumpgate" everything is over.

- George Lessmann

Why would Deep Space Nine win, you ask? Allow me to restate the question. Why would Babylon 5 win? They CANNOT win. Neither of 'em can. That is like asking who would win betwwen Beavis and Butthead. Neither, of course. Even though Butthead could kick Beavis' scrawny little butt, Beavis will annoy the heck out of Butthead making them both losers. Same with Deep Space Nine and Babylon Five. After hours of relentless fighting they notice that this is quite futile. They come from two different universes. They would take little damage considering neither of their weapons were made to fight an enemy likt this. Both grow tired of the game and fly out of there, promising to return with their buddies for a rematch. 1 month later: Two fleets arrive at the planet of the previous conflict. Scores of starships and fighters are lost during this seeming endless war. Eventually they decide to form a treaty. In order to keep both of them being obliterated they decide to call it quits.

2 millenia later on board the Deep Space 6890732875817638784718 "Sir,another station is arriving into this sector." "Excellent! Let us cripple it!"

On board the Babylon 34806893498640498 "Sir,another station is coming intop view." "Excellent! Let us cripple it!"

In the following battle the two space station are destroyed after attempting a game of "Chicken." End of story.

- Edward L. Williams

Every time DS9 had ratings problems, the producers would get someone from STNG to do a guest spot or join the cast. With that kind of back-up, how can you lose?

- Robert E. Mills

Remember how itchy a trigger finger Worf had when on the Enterprise? Imagine his reaction when all these flimsy ships start coming at DS9? "Permission to fire, sir...Thanks." [KABOOM, it's all over...]

When you have two incredibly big space stations fighting each other like this, it comes down to the Captains. One is named John Sheridon, the other Benjamin Sisko. That's it, right there, don't you see? It's the power of the name alone. The name of John Sheridon is comparable to a peanut butter and jelly sandwich on white bread. Whereas, the name Benjamin Sisko is comparable to a hero sandwich comparable to the ones that Dagwood eats in "Blondie."

One must also consider the power of the individual's background and past experience. Why do you think it's called Babylon 5??? Because 4 other of them failed!!!! Bit the big one, four other times!!! Has Sisko ever let Pavel Chekov wreck havok on DS9? I don't theenk so. Having the intrepid crew of DS9 attack Babylon 5 would be a god-send. Put them out of their misery.

- Ryono

Let's face it, this is a no-contest. Open up the can of whoop-ass.

- The Church of Cthulhu

This message was actually alot longer, but I justed liked the last line.

Babylon 5 would win, easily. The main reason why: Starfleet has no small, manuverable fighters, and they don't understand that space is 3-dimesional. B5's starfuries will swarm around the Defiant and take out it's shields and ablative armour, and then the White Star will destroy it. Because he's such a brilliant commander, Sisko will then fire all 5000 torpedo's at the White Star, destroying it. Mimbari cruisers will then attack the station. Sisko will attempt to fire phasers, but will find that he can't lock onto the Mimbari. The onslaught of the Mimbari combined with the hordes of starfuries will prove too much for the station, and one of the (insert technobable) will blow up, taking the whole station with it. Sisko and his command staff will escape on the lone surviving runabout to the automatic reset button (hidden on Bajor) and push it. Babylon 5 will be transported back to their own reality, DS9 will reapear, and starfleet and Bajor will send replacements for the thousands of dead that are never mentioned again.

- Ben Bullock

Ivonova realizes it is time, and simply calls in the gang from Sigma 957 who quickly phase in and accidently step on DS9, Bajor, and half the Alpha quadrant without even noticing, then leave without so much as a "Zog".

- Tim Wright

It's very obvious that Kurt never watches DS9. This is not your father's Star Trek. DS9 ships move in 3 dimensions all right. You need only watch "Shattered Mirror" to see the Defiant turning on a dime and giving the Klingons nine cents change just before it blasts them out of the sky with its rapid-fire phasors. Sheridan may be an excellent commander and the only human to ever destroy a Nimbari vessel but he's no Sisko. Sisko is man who was able to survive war with the Borg without being on the Borg's side. He desigined and built the Defiant himself to kick Borg ***! The White Star may be tough, but it can't succeed where fifty Klingon warships failed. It will have a tough time just surviving the onslaught of DS9's 5,000 photon torpedoes, hundreds of type X phasors, and the Defiant. B5's fighters are not a factor in this battle. They'll barely scratch the Defiant's shields and won't do a thing to DS9's.

- Roberto Castillo

Meanwhile, back at DS9 Sisko is trying desperately to get his weapons back on line. "I've got an idea," says Chief O'Brian suddenly. "I think I can bypass the power-flow cuplink from the main reactor and feed it into the secondary phaser relays." "Get to it, Chief," cries the Captain. "This always works," thinks Sisko with a victorious smile. Little does he know that the plot story space that was brought through the wormhole from the B5 universe has now leaked heavily into and around the DS9 station. The B5 universe doesn't allow last second technobabble solutions to life threatning problems. "I'm sorry Captain," cries Chief O'Brian, "my idea didn't work!" "We're all dead!" cries Dax as she elbows past a stunned O'Brian to catch the last turbo-tube to the escape transporters.

"Blow that ugly station out my sky," bellows Sheridan with a stare like death itself. "With pleasure," replies Ivanova with a smile.

"Wait, you're supposed to wait, you're supposed to...." Sisko's tearful pleas are cut short as a barrage of pure energy rips through DS9 and the station's Command Center.

- Tom McLean

This one was simply too easy. Babylon 5 may have Narn, the White Star, and what have you, but no-one even considered DS9's ultimate weapon, never before seen...or heard. Its........MORN!!!!! Everyone's favorite barfly can and will stand up to the combine onslaught of B5. Nothing, but nothing, could ever tear this guy away from Quark's bar. When the dust settles, there will be Morn, amidst the debris of the White Star, Peter Jurasik, and several scantily clad Dabo girls. Plus, if you didn't know, Morn was inspired by the most famous alcahol-swiller of all time, Norm Peterson (note the anagram). Norm, too could kick B5's collective butt, if he weren't so busy trying to avoid paying his bar tab. Morn is elected president of the promenade, DS9, the federation, and ultimately, the universe. LONG LIVE MORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- David Nelson.

Let's look at the morals of star trek. There's a quarter million people on B5. Star trek morals would NEVER allow them to kill off that many people. B5 does it all the time (The Markab, the Narn homeworld ect.) B5 in the first round!

- Lordbear

The battle as set up here, would go to Deep Space Nine. (Of course if you give B5 the home court advantage, than it would win, because Draal would just slice straight through DS9 and it would be over in about two seconds)

- Brendan Guy

I, for one, am not casting my vote for either side because the firefight would never occur. Neither Sisko nor Sheridon are going to assume that the other is an enemy. Of course they're both going to take up a defensive stance, but no one is going to fire until a dialogue is established. And once comminication is established, somewhere along the way Sheridon would say, "Earth Alliance", and it would be all over. Sisko would say something like, "Earth Alliance? ... I think we need to talk." and there would be no fight.

Perhaps I have completely missed the point, I don't know.

- David Grandin

Yeah, sure, the big advantage that DS9 has going for it is shielding. Those fancy-ass Quantum torpedoes will damage B5 (and probably make mincemeat of the Starfuries), but the interceptor cannons on 5 will minimize damage. B5 will fire back on DS9, but the lasers/main ion cannon/plasma cannons will only damage the shielding slightly (but sufficiently so that a control panel in the DS9 bridge will blow in a shower of sparks, killing a dispensible Starfleet technician.) Then, as things begin to look bad for the Army of Light, John "Starkiller" Sheridan will come up with the unconventional plan to circumnavigate the shields- telepathy.

Telepathy cuts right through Starfleet shielding! Even Deanna "Cheeleader" Troi can use her pitiful empathic powers and cut right through shields to say "I sense plot lines that we can steal for our own series, captain." A group of linked telepaths will produce an effect something like this...

As the Defiant (populated by the Entire DS9 command crew and all supporting actors) approaches B5 (who has stopped firing except to block incoming torpedoes), Worf asks Sisko "permission to fire, sir?" Sisko is about to answer (dramatic close up) when his face twiches. "Belay that order, Mr. Worf. He opens a channel to DS9 and tells them "Cease firing upon the Founder station! Now, lieutenant!" (insert name of the lieutenant commander they left behind on DS9). "Computer (to DS9 and Defiant), lower shields and power down all weapon systems. Belay any order to raise them, authorization Sisko dash 1-1-6-omega-z." Sisko then stuns himself into a coma with his own phaser (the preresiquite tearjerker scene).

Worf suddenly realizes something is wrong, but too late. Sheridan says "Fire all weapons! Time on target!" B5 opens up with all its guns, turing DS9 into a burning hunk of scrap metal. The Defiant tries to escape, but the White Star chases it down remorselessly, forcing it to go to warp and escape, obeying the "Command crew cannot die" clause in all Star Trek series. The Defiant warps away, limping back to the Federation.

Cut to C&C. Sheridan turns around to see a group of linked Minbari, Centauri, League, and Human telepaths, led by Bester. As they disengage, Bester says "Enemy we-...Vessel destroyed, Captain."

- Rob Kazmierczak

DS-9 has what B-5 needs (but B-5 will win anyway!)

DS-9 has a tailor. One of B-5's crew has an ill-fitting and uncomfortable uniform... 'nuff said about my vote.

- Leslie E. Vance

J. Michael Straczynski, the Great Maker in the B5 universe, has stated unequivocally that, "Stun settings are for people who can't commit." 'Nuff said.

- Dave Moore

The reality of That Which Has Become a Deep Space Franchise is such, that, no self-loving Trekkie is satisfied unless That Which Is The Giant Hunk of Subatomic Particle Infested Metal In This Particular Series blows up on occasion, so Picasso Roddenbury Stalin can design another Semi-Gelatinous SpaceCan Thingie (tm) and sell another billion models and posters and create some sort of General Cliffhanger-type Ending, again asking the wondrous question, "Hey, how come no one important ever dies, even though they keep crashing / blowing up / evolving into giant slug-type buggers ???"

Whereas, while the Star Fleet Prep School kiddies are trying to fix the Transporter Problem of the Week (synonomous with Holodeck Problem of the Week), B5 launches a whole lot of Starfuries and boarding pods filled with the Narn Bat Squad (tm) (Louisville sluggers beat those little pagers-nee-phasers-on-tickle-setting anyday!), and, since B5 follows the laws of physics, the Army of Light thusly takes over the Deep Space Franchise... er... and, unfortunately, the writers escape to write another series. !!!

- Chromatic

Man, it'd be worth an appendage to sit there in a Stasis Field (tm Puppeteer Technology) and watch these two battlewagons duke it out!

When all is said and done, though, I think the greater size of the B5 station would rule the day. It would take a bunch of Shadow beams to cut it up. Photon Torps (tm) and Phasers (tm) just don't have the yield to make dents in B5. I mean look at the battle when B5 seceded from the EA. A whole EA battlegroup, with those Nasty Red Beams (tm Northup-Grumman Wicked Space Weapon Div), nicked it up some. And Narns vs Klingons - Klingons love glory and battle in a Viking kind of way, but Narns are seriously efficient. Worf gets his donkey-equivalent kicked every time a new, unknown race (i.e. forehead) shows up (which happens every other episode). The Centauri had to bombard Narn with asteroids to knock them down.

Shields are great, but they degrade quickly ("Captain, shields are down to 20%! One more hit and we risk a hull breach!") and one of those Nasty Red Beams (tm) would cause a Containment Field Collapse (tm) on that dangerously exposed Antimatter Engine at the bottom (tm Roddenberry 2D concepts) of DS9 (tm Cardassian Claw-Shaped Space Defense Corp., a Microsoft Company) and blow it into the Zeta Quadrant.

And I won't even mention Red-Shirted Ensigns.

- Xxact, Inc

I'd have to say that Kwai Chang Caine would... What? That was last week? Doh! Okay, I'll have to read this thing hum...oh good match hum...yes, that's a good point... WHAT!!!! Gowron is a changling!!! Oh, my God, NO!!! CRASH!!! AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggggggg...SPLAT!

- Thomas D Landers

I don't get a couple of things here. First of all, B5 likes to scramble all these fighters all the time, but their fighters don't have the third button in the middle of the control stick like on Battlestar Galactica. This seems like a pretty dumb move, not to put that button on there. Plus, okay the DS9 is a Cardassian station, right, and all it's ships(like the Defiant), they have no saucer sections. So right away, DS9 has an advantage because they have all the technological prowess of the Federation but their ships look more dangerous. Plus, DS9 can do the Death Blossom (via it's photon torpedo assault) like in Last Starfighter. Ok, BUT..once Sheridan downloads TRON into DS9's computers he'll start making his way to the central core in order to shut it down. With no Commander Data around to notice the intrusion, they are not likely to prevent TRON from making the important final linkup with the user Sheridan before taking down the system. Thus will the DS9 face total shutdown just as it's torpedoes start doing some serious damage. Then it will go down to shirt-tearin' cheek-bloodyin' hand-to-hand combat. Naturally, it will be like the bridge crew of DS9 versus a big horde of B5 commando types, but using combined Klingon dangerous looking objects as well as Official Federation James T. Kirk Grade A whupass moves, the plucky crew will slashing, parrying, drop-kicking, two-fists-in-the-back-hitting and somersaulting-throwing long enough to make it to the end of the episode which is when the reinforcements arrive, which is pretty much the only way DS9 or B5 wins the big mixups...

- Dave

B5 wins by TK0.

Obviously DS9 has much better technology. FTL travel, shields, better sensors, cloaking devices. The battle starts by B5 sending out hoards and hoards of star-furies, which quickly get cut down. Then in a move of desperation, Sheridan gets in his star-fury and heads into the fray.

Thankfully for the B5'rs, at that moment Sisko decides to capture one of the attacking suicidal gnats, and chooses (by pure chance) Sheridan's ship. Sheridan, having massive flashbacks to Sinclair, starts spouting off about "shared souls", and being "the one". Realising that the captured captain is a human, and obviously far from home, Sisko of the "Death before guilt, dishonor before angst" Federation surrenders to save lives, thus fulfilling some ancient worm-hole related prophesy.

Not a single DS9 ship has its paint scratched, but technically a win for Babalon5.

- Doug

Babylon 5 will torch Deep Space Nine.

Sheridan is the most morally self rightous commander active in space today. He will not find it hard to convince himself that Deep Space Nine is a Shadow station, and for the sake of the galaxy he must torch it. Sheridan will say "My father once told me that ..... So that is why we must act now. Open fire!" In the meanwhile Sisko et al, carrying all the moral baggage of the Federation, will be paralysed into inaction while they contact Star Fleet. Babylon 5's well trained gun crews(every other episode they have to fight someone) will make short work of Deep Space Nine. Star Trek characters are indestructable however, so they will be able to escape by shuttlecraft into the wormhole. Sheridan will realize his mistake when Deep Space Nine is a useless ruin. He will cry on Delenn's shoulder; thus morally purging himself of guilt by allowing him to rationalize his action. He will be back the next day looking for more imaginary shadows.

- John Duncan

Overall it is a well balanced match. I mean aside from the Federation guys being such panty-wastes and all. Both stations and their surrounding fleets are armed to the teeth. Both have technologies unknown to the other. In the end it will boil down to the the things they have in common: Majel Barret and Walter Koenig. They are mystical beings who span both the Star Trek and Babylon universes and as they turn, so does the battle. Let's compare. In Roddenberry's domain Majel Barret began as a lowly nurse with a crush on the ship's number one geek. Even when Spock was deep in the Blood Fever, she couldn't get his plommick soup hot. Then she became the voice of the computer. Yeah, I'm real scared of a disembodied voice saying "insufficient data". Or was it "insufficient Data" meaning she's still chasing the ship's number one geek? And then she becomes the mother of the ship's chief bleeding heart. And guess what? She's STILL chasing geeks, and she STILL can't get laid. Well, except for Roddenberry himself, and that was a long time ago. Koenig's Ensign Checkov is straight out of The Monkees and would have been killed long ago if he'd ever put on his red shirt. But now let's look over in Straczynski's universe. Here Majel Barret is a high ruling priestess in a successful expansionist regime. She looks regal and awe inspiring even tho she's shaved bald. Her gift of prophesy is sought out by would-be emporers who she NEVER tells "insufficient data". Oh yes, Majel is a major power here. And Koenig? He's a psychotic psy-cop with plans to rule all of mankind, who he refers to as "mundanes". He can kill or maim using only the power of his mind. And he's arrogant and ruthless, not like some cheesy Boris Badenov sounding mop-top, always claiming stuff was "inwented in Russia" while kissing Kirk's ass. Deep Six Deep Space Nine. Babylon 5 RULES!

- J Patrick Hester

Well, I wish I had somw witty, biting comment to back this up, but I don't. It all boils down to one thing, not phasers, not shields, not writers. No this is the MOST BASIC HOLLYWOOD element, money. Babylon 5 has an impressive budget, but NOTHING, not even the Star Wars Empire, can measure up the multi-billion dollar revenue Star Trek has created for Paramount.

So it is very simple. DS9 will outspend Babylon5 on Special Effects. And EVERYONE knows, special effects will decide the outcome. If Babylon5 does some gritty and realistic writing, Paramount will give ILM and the Trek staff millions of dollars to create a new "weapon" like a Gravity Well Phase Inverter to open a Black Hole inside the White Star, or perhaps they will use the "phased cloak" seen in the Pegasus episode of STTNG.

But the most sinister wepaon will be the one unleashed by the Federation. 20th century unionized Hollywood workers will be "beamed" aboard the White Star and begin disassembling the White Star from within, when the B5 budget is gone. They will be impervious to the vacuum of space or any weapons the B5 team tries to use on them. Then there will be no more B5 and Sisko and Co. will laugh all the way to the bank.

- Grant Jacobs

I figure that Sisko(tm) is cool, VERY Cool, dare I say even Mentos(tm) Cool! And he has a much more strategic mind than to get involved in an all out fist fight. He would use the cloaked Defiant(tm) to get a small landing party on board. This would include the Dr., the Constable, Dax(tm) and Worf(tm). As soon as the B5 crew see that they are not Shadow people(tm) and it is explained that there was some "rift in time"(tm)(r)(sm), the B5 would Ally with DS9.

Since B5 is staffed by Federation(tm) like people (not the riff-raff that the Federation would scoff at), the B5 is accepted into the Federation and the technology is upgraded.

Quark(tm), never missing an opportunity to make a little cash on the side introduces the B5 crew to his little bar and hires extra Dabo Girls(r) to "keep'em comming back"(sm). He gets most of the smart B5 crew members into Holo-suites(tm) and then fleeses Sheridan(tm) of all his antiques. Sheridan, being of weak mind becomes hooked on Dabo(tm) and loses the B5 on a very bad bet Thus DS9 Wins B5 - End of Story

- Gary Greenberg "Greenman"

Since an epic battle of this magnitude will span multiple episodes DS9 is even more doomed than one may initially think because they are unable to conceive of a problem that does not solve itself in the last 5 minutes after the last commercial break. The credits of episode one will roll and DS9 will think they're safe, then in episode two (or three or four) WHAMMO! B5 catches them by suppress while the DS9 crew is distracted by a character building dilemma involving Jake, a salami and a Dabo girl in the holo-suite.

- Ian Kennedy

But here's an even better reason - check out first season B5 vs first season DS9. Note the special effects. Bearing in mind that the B5 ones were done on Amigas, and the DS9 ones were done on supercomputers, who do you think has more talent?

- BV

Good point!

Well, it all comes down to Ivanova vs Worf, doesn't it?

- Peter Drake

I'm not sure what this means... but I like it.

I'd like to see someone throw a few telepaths into the fray. Deanna: I sense.....Hostility. Anger. Bester: "Captain, I can strip all the thoughts from their mind. Do you want it still intact? Or shall I leave them a blithering idiot?"

- Wildfire

Actually, the fight may start between DS9 and Bab-5, but it won't end that way. G'Kar and Kira establish communications and discover they are both victims of Imperialist oppression. The Centaurian and Cardassians learn that they are both oppressive Imperialists. The battle between the factions keeps Sheridan and Sisko busy space-hopping between warships, hoping to find a diplomatic way to restore peace. In the confusion no-one notices, when the cosmic dust settles, that both space stations are missing... in their place a homing beacon with a message recorded in its circuits.

Sheridan glances at Sisko, perplexed. "What the hell is the 164th Rule of Accquisition?"

- John Hunter

I know the Trek universe has shields, transporters, holodecks and all those other wonderful plot devices. But B5 will still win because it is crewed by soldiers, not spandex-wearing, Prime Directive following, our weapons are for defense only, hailing frequency opening, EXPLORERS whose asses are so wide from sitting around in a briefing room talking that they can't pass through those sliding doors they love so much.

Also, B5 characters have long-term memory. What happens in a past show will be remembered and have an impact on the current show. Since DS9 has no continuity I can only assume the characters can't remember what happened to them. Thus they will forget their Academy training when the going gets rough and be unable to work their controls.

When it comes down to hand to hand (as it eventually must) it looks even worse for the DS9 crew. Maybe Hawk could fight Scarecrow to a draw. I'll give you that. But look at the rest.

Garibaldi looks like Bruce Willis. Odo is refugee from Benson. Ivanova is God. Kira worships Hawk. Bashirr plays games on a holodeck for fun. Franklin takes speed.

That leaves O'Brian and he'll be tough. But a tag team of Delenn, G'Kar, Lennier, Londo, Vir and yes, even Marcus will be enough to wear him down.

DS9 versus B5? Hell that's not even a contest. Now B5 vs. Galactica...

- Locke

Clearly Babylon 5 will outlast Deep Space 9. Just when it looks like DS9 is actually going to have something happen to it, the screenwriters will come full circle with the story so that all is well again, or perhaps the crew will discover that this is all just a parallel universe and the real DS9 is safe and sound -- where every show ends on schedule, all crew members remain in the same mental, emotional, and physical state as always, and DS9 will be "back to normal".

Wasn't it Nietschze who wrote that to remain in stasis, without change, is to die?If that is true, DS9 has been dead for some time now...


Have to go with Darren on this one. Reason? Allies. What allies does Sheridan have? Kate Jackson? Don't make me laugh. Sisko, on the other hand, can conjure up the powers of the unkillable Robert Urich. How many shows has Urich been on? A dozen? Yet, he always comes back from the dead, much like his present character, the Lazarus Man.

Also, as has already been noted, Star Trek characters are always the Good Guys (TM) even when fighting other good guys.

Don't ask me who would win in a battle between the Star Trek and Disney universes, however. There were some things that Man was Not Meant to Know.

- Geoduck

Sure...Darren says that the Federation always wins, but more accurately, the main characters survive, equipment gets toasted (the 24th century flag ship got wasted by a 20 yr, puny Kingon bird of prey). Anytime any main ship is in front of movie cameras, they get blown up. Its that simple.

Remember, Babylon 5 has all those external cameras; the "we're in the movies now jynx(tm)" will dominate, and Babylon 5 will dust Bajor with little peices of federation space station.

- Chris Ginn

"hello, this is bob costas..." "... and i'm ahmad rashad..." "... we're here at the wwwf for the space station battle of the millenium. lets go to our man in the field, o.j. simpson. glad to have you back, o.j." "thanks, bob. as you know, both sides have agreed to use 'q' as an impartial referee for these games. from down here on the field, ds9 has the edge in the rage(tm) due to a lot of overacting, but bashir does hurt them in this area. with all of the space bimbos in the trek universe, i'd have to say the babe factor(tm) is on their side as well. also, the trek universe is 0-3, and i think they are hungry for a win. b5 has to come up with something in order to win. the captains are gathering with the referee, let's listen in." "alright, humans, i want a clean fight. i know your history trekkers, and i want you to watch the convenient plot devices -- no reversing the polarity of an alternating signal, no mysterious, previously unknown paricles. you all know the rules, gating in associates from other tv shows is allowed, and obscure references will gain you style points, but will not affect the final totals."

"well ahmad, it looks like, as expected, sisco is gating in spencer from spencer for hire." "that's right, bob, but sheridan is countering with kate jackson, from scarecrow. and she has brought along the other angels from charlies angels, looks like b5 has gotten the edge in the babe factor(tm)." "hey, what's the blonde angel doing?" "that's farrrah fawcet! she's bringing in her ex husband, lee majors, aka steve austin, the bionic man! with an edge in the babe factor(tm) and the bionic factor(tm), i think its about over for ds9."

- jeff

Good job on whittling down the vast number of responses!

- Steve

Thanks again. And congrats on setting a new vote total record.

- Brian Wright (VP WWWF Grudge Matches)

If you liked this match, check out these other past matches:

Kosh v. Yoda
Ivanova v. Seven of Nine v. Leia
More Sci-Fi-based matches

Home | History | Suggestions | FAQ | Stats | Links
Awards | Commentators | Real Life | Fun Stuff | Studio Store

© 1996, WWWF Grudge Match; © 2000, Dragon Hamster Productions, LLC