World Wide Web Fights presents

WWWF logo by Aaron Lindgren

G2: Grudgement Day

The Scenario

"Gentlemen, your three o'clocks are here.", echoes the voice over the intercom in the main boardroom of Dreamworks enterprises.

Leaning over his Evian with a twist of Lime™, Steven Spielberg depresses the button on the speaker and says "Send them in, Lisa."

The oak doors swing open to the lobby, and two of the hottest action stars of the past decade walk into the room. Spielberg motions for them to sit down across from the Hollywood power trio, but both The Muscles from Brussels and The Glimmer Man decline. Both men eye each other warily and sneer.

"Boys, I'll be brief.", Jeffery Katzenberg starts. "We've just acquired the rights to the next sure-fire blockbuster action hit of the year. And one of you two is going to star in... " Katzenberg holds up his hands as if to indicate the marquee "McBain: the Live-action movie."

"Now, gentlemen, let's be very clear.", adds David Geffen. "This movie won't be just about fighting. That will be only... oh, 50 per cent of it. No, we also need a leading man who can mete out the classic McBain quips while he's laying out the beatings. You know, like 'Ice to see you', and 'That makes two of us'".

"Now, you two are our final choices," continues Spielberg "partially because we enjoy your work, but mostly because every single other action star; Schwarzenegger, Jackie Chan, Bruce Campbell, even F. Murray Abraham™, is tied up with our new Dreamworks animated feature "Amoeba: A Love Story"

"So this is the audition. Half your final score will be on fighting skills, and half will be on the witticisms you trade before, during and after the fight."

One man rises and connects with a quick right hand to the chin of the other. "You can keep the change", says the bellicose Belgian.

The man wipes a stream of blood from his mouth, adjusts his jet-black ponytail, and delivers a roundhouse kick. "You forgot to say please.". The fight is on!

So, Dave, which fearlesss fighter furiously finishes his foe with fisticuffs, and which vigorous vigilante verbally vanquishes via vocal vexations?

For more info on McBain, check out McBain: Let's Get Silly.

Jean Claude Van Damme Steven Seagal

Jean Claude Van Damme


Steven Seagal

The Commentary

We would like to welcome Dave "1/2" Nelson as the latest Ground Zero™ guest commentator.
He requests that you do not employ his namesake manuever on his person, like Thinkmaster did...

DAVE 1/2 NELSON: And to think I was expecting a difficult scenario for my first Grudge Match! Van Damme is superior to Seagal in every conceivable way; you may as well prepare yourself for your inevitable drubbing. First of all, Seagal is no match for Van Damme physically. Many years ago, perhaps, he was in fighting condition, but now he's bloated and out of shape . Jean-Claude, on the other hand, is lean and fit. He truly is The Muscles from Brussels. What's Seagal? The Pansy from Lansing?

And that brings me to my next irrefutable point. The makers of the McBain movie will want the lead actor to approximate McBain's Germano-Austrian (???) accent as closely as possible. While a Belgian accent isn't exactly the same, it comes a hell of a lot closer than the dialect of Lansing, Michigan (Seagal's home town).

Van Damme has all the tools to win this role. He has a sound mind in a sound body. Seagal is like a Hostess Twinkie. A tubby little frame with nothing of value inside. The way I see it, Van Damme lands a spinning backfist to Seagal's head and says "I'm the repo man...and you're out of business" (Van Damme, Street Fighter).

JOHN: First of all, welcome aboard, Dave. I know you must be intimdiated running up against the ol' Thinkmaster, but please. The incoherent blubberings offered in your initial arguments don't really flatter you. There is no way Jean-Claude Van Damme is walking out of that room with the McBain role. "Take it to the bank. The blood bank!" (Seagal, Hard to Kill)

Van Damme, when he's not taking on terrifying opponents such as beloved cultural icon Raul Julia, is demonstrating his lack of verbal virtuosity by NOT nailing the chicks from Friends. (What kind of pick up line is "Want to have a three way?" (Van Damme, Friends). I thought that was the exclusive domain of drunken frat boys.) And just how is Van Damme supposed to relay the McBain wit when it's difficult to even understand him? BTW, how's Van Damme have any practice sounding German? Aren't the only German words spoken in Belgium "This way to France, mein Herr." (Belgians, episodically)?

Steven Seagal, on the other hand, is an AC-TOR! This is evident from the way he takes roles not known for their bellicoseness - firefighter, chef, EPA agent, Buddhist Monk, and turns them into paragons of Asskickery™. Moreover, Seagal is experieced in using all forms of weapons, not just guns and fists: pool cues, broom sticks, credit cards ("Do you accept plastic?", Seagal, Glimmer Man), coconut oil, his opponents' own forearms, the list goes on. Clearly, the role goes to Seagal, both for his ability to form coherent sentences, and for his fistic abilities.

One last thing: why doesn't "Timecop" Van Damme go back in time to stop production on "Double Team"? God, that movie sucked.

DAVE: The lack of thought you put into your arguments is rivalled only by the lack of effort you put into your personal hygeine. It's a wonder they don't call you "Stinkmaster". You mock Van Damme's blunt suggestion of a "friend"ly menage a trois, but this was actually role research! McBain exhibits the same level of blunteness. This is the man who told his musical director "Nice outfit. It makes you look like a homosexual" (McBain, Up Late with McBain). And what you call an "inability" to form coherent sentences will only bring Van Damme closer to winning the role. McBain isn't all that articulate either, or hadn't you noticed?

I'm sorry, did you call Seagal an AC-TOR?!?! You must be overdue for some medication or something. Seagal as a Buddhist monk or EPA agent is laughable. McBain is a no-nonsense, in-your-face, action hero. Seagal's wimpy roles to date leave him sorely wanting for experience in the McBain genre. Fans of Mr. Ranier Wolfcastle's work don't want to see household items used as weapons, they want to see guns and fists! Van Damme is the true master of both. As Frank "Put up your" Dux, he won the deadly Kumite tournament of martial arts. Seagal wouldn't last 5 minutes before someone ripped the dopey ponytail from his empty skull. I doubt he could even raise his flabby arms to defend himself! As Van Damme once said, "Offence gets the glory, but defence wins the game" (Van Damme, Double Team.)

Jean Claude Van Damme will pummel Seagal into such pulp that investors will pull out of "Under Siege 3: Where's My Burrito?". Meanwhile, Van Damme will launch a highly successful McBain franchise and make millions of dollars marketing McBain Funny Foam. Then, he'll turn out the sequel, "McBain: Let's Get Silly™", giving Van Damme a chance to showcase his hidden comedic talent. And it all starts with a kick to Seagal's gut, and the line "Don't f**k with me, I'm about to have a very bad day" (Van Damme, Sudden Death).

JOHN: Dave, I was hoping I wouldn't have to say this, but you leave me no option. "If your daddy knew how stupid you were, he'd trade you in for a pet monkey." (Seagal, Fire Down Below)

Your increasing dementia regarding Van Damme's fitness and fighting ability has provided me with many hours of private hilarity, which I am now pleased to share with our audience. If you're not down with the fact that Van Damme is a pushover, I've got two words for you: Chuck Zito. That and the fact that Van Damme is so terrified of the Y2K bug, he's planning on fleeing to Australia like a puny little girl [dead link]. There's no way Seagal would do that - in fact, I foresee a dramatic encounter involving him disabling the Y2K bug worldwide at the last possible moment and defeating the evil genius responsible for it. (I refer, of course, to Oprah™.) Seagal has fought his way through countless bar fights filled with mercenaries, hillbillies, and hired goons and you're telling me he couldn't take out a Belgian?

Your "role research" argument above is a bit of inspired lunacy, except without any inspiration. How does not landing a Friends babe make Van Damme like McBain, who "sleeps on a pile of money with many beautiful women"? (McBain, Coming Attractions). Speaking of his questionable tastes, you don't see Seagal taking roles involving dressing up in spandex tights (Van Damme, Street Fighter), or appearing in a movie about breakdancing (Van Damme, Breakin'). As Seagal might say, "I'm not trained for this" (Seagal, Under Siege II). And thank goodness for that!

Face it, Dave. Van Damme might be able to land a supporting role in "Help, My Son Is A Nerd!", or possibly Yentl, but that's where it ends. Seagal will punt all four foot eight of Van Damme through Dreamworks' plate glass window (where he will fall 27 floors on to a gas truck which subsequently explodes), pick up the script for the McBain movie, and tell the Hollywood bigwigs "This, I'm trained for" (Seagal, Under Siege II)

Thanks to Brad Eisenberg, Stephen Allgood, and Jeff Creighton for suggesting this matchup.

The Results

Jean Claude Van Damme (625 - 50.7%)


Steven Seagal (607 - 49.3%)

and goes off to hold another bed. (™ McBain)

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Gold Grudgie

SCENE: Springfield's newest strip club, "Moe's Hoez"

Barney and Homer enter. Barney stumbles slightly, pinches a waitress, gets slapped, and totters off to the bar. Homer walks up to Moe.

Homer: Hey, Moe...niiiiice place! (admires many supple female forms)

Moe: Thanks, Homer (pours beer)- it's great except for my cook...I would fire dis guy, but I gotta keep the kitchen open during the day for the business lunch-hour...

As Moe gestures around the club, we see Krusty, Skinner, and Willie among other Springfield luminaries scattered around the club, sultry women gyrating in their laps. A drunken Apu stands and yells what a great country America is.

Moe: And this bum (gestures to cook) can't even bake a potato properly!!! (holds up almost-raw potato with a bloody chicken head stuffed inside)

Homer notes the cook who squints back at Homer, his black ponytail just visible beneath his chef's hat.


Moe: Moe's Hoez...

Voice on phone: Hey, can you page Mr. Madcock for me?

Moe: Sure...(yells) Is there a Madcock in here? Is there a....Hey! Wait a minute!!!

Homer gets up and wanders around as Moe yells into the phone. His jaw drops when he sees a dark corner where Van Damme sits, many beautiful yellow-skinned, blue-haired women pawing at him.

Suddenly, the cook walks up to Van Damme.

Cook: You like those onion rings, sir? (he squints and grimaces slightly)

Van Damme: Ja. Dese rings are de best effer.

Cook (removing cap - reveals himself as Seagall): Good, 'cuz it's your turn to get fried! (leaps into a spin-kick, knocking Van Damme out of his chair, strippers flying)

Van Damme: Ahhhh...Steefan! You should leef da kitchen iff you can't stand de heat! (leaps into Seagall head-first)

Seagall rolls, flipping Van Damme into the air, landing him on a table. Montgomery Burns pops up from behind a stripper's swaying hips and ducks to one side.

Seagall: Here's a free table dance! (jumps on top off Van Damme and stomps him)

Van Damme (flipping up, knocking Seagall over): Let me help you find a seat...(kicks Seagall into Apu's booth)

Apu: Oh my goodness!!! I have not yet become fully aroused and already a bar fight has interrupted my well-paid for table-dance....

Seagall (squinting): House rule number one: don't touch the staff!

Van Damme: I'm your banker - and your account is closed! (punches Seagall in the stomach)

Seagall: You got a passport to travel from annoying to assinine?

Van Damme (making a fist): Right here...

Seagall: Looks like that passport needs a stamp! (kicks Van Damme in the head)

Van Damme: You and your girly ponytail....looking like you are a homosexual!

Seagall (squinting): That's not polite in today's kinder (punches), gentler (kicks Van Damme in the groin) society!

Van Damme (grabbing at his sore crotch): Hey, cook - looks like your order is up! (spin-kicks at Seagall and misses)

Seagall: Just take yours to go! (leaps and kicks, sending Van Damme out the window to the sidewalk)

As the dust settles, Seagall strides calmly back to the kitchen. He pauses momentarily to scan the bevy of topless dancers scurrying back to the dressing room.

Seagall (to a passing dancer): You want fries with that shake?

He walks to the kitchen, removes his chef's costume, dons his jet-black Armani and exits victorious, stepping over Barney who is laying in a puddle of his own puke.

- Scott Jorgenson

ROTW ™ Silver Medal Grudgie ™

Silver Grudgie

Steven Seagal once blew up an oil refinery in order to save the environment. Using similar logic, he tries to batter Van Damme's fists with his own face. Not only does this result in Seagal losing the fight, it also knocks all his teeth out, making his speach even harder to understand than Van Damme's.


ROTW ™ Bronze Medal Grudgie ™

Bronze Grudgie

Ah, where do I begin? First, this is obviously a Double Team duking it out versus each other, knowing that they both are On Deadly Ground. Each combatant considers the other Marked for Death, and himself Above the Law and very, very Hard to Kill. Each also picturing himself owning a Death Warrant, they know that the inevitable outcome will be Sudden Death.

Finally The Quest to defeat the other opponent has begun, with both having nowhere to begun. Kickboxer Van Damme connects with The Glimmer Man Seagal, who makes an Executive Decision to return the blow, putting himself in Maximum Risk.

Spielberg, from the sidelines, watches the Double Impact of the fighters' Bloodsport with a Timecop, The Patriot, and even a Street Fighter standing as his personal bodyguards, ready for anything to occur. The combatants do begin fighting the bodyguards, realizing that the fight was getting tired --the quips were getting all too cheesy.

Spielberg, knowing that there was Nowhere to Run, decided to become a Hard Target, by perfecting The Deadliest Art of Fire Down Below. In comes a Universal Soldier, looking as dangerous as a complete Cyborg. Van Damme knows that the building is Under Siege and Seagal knows that he is Under Siege 2.

Every Kickboxer, 2, knows that the chaos is just beginning. The Lionheart on the chest of the soldier looks as though it is ready to create a Black Eagle, and Spielberg panics, ready to surface some dinosaurs. Knowing that there is No Retreat No Surrender, all the combatants have only begun this battle, knowing that even if they lose, all the fans will be Out for Justice.

- The Black Knight of Ni

It's not a question of who would win, it's who accidentally sends Katzenburg, screaming, flying through the window and into the pool below, which suddenly parts and leaves him slamming into the concrete below. Can we say Act of God(tm)? No, Act of Disney(tm)! It's a setup, I tell you! A SET UP!!!

- Rabid Dreamworks Fan

As entertaining as a fight between VanDamme and Seagal would be, the outcome is already decided by the wierd, mysterious laws of the entertainment world. Seagal stands no chance at winning simple because of the title, "McBain: the Live-action movie." It violates the fundamental "three word title" law of Seagal Movies. Look at his past resume... Above the Law, On Deadly Ground, Marked for Death, Hard to Kill, Under Siege Two, The Glimmer Man. All of these have one thing in common besides a lame premise and wooden acting. Three word titles. Even Under Siege was originally supposed to be called "Last to Surrender." There is obviously some bizarre cosmic force at work here. No matter how hard he tries, Seagal will never be able to win a role in a movie with this many words in the title

- Faustus

I doubt that Van Damme would flee to Australia.

Last time he was here, he got beaten up in a bar by a sports reporter for making a move on said reporter's wife. This was then reported repeatedly for days, and ever since whenever his name came up in a discussion on radio.

If he can be beaten up by a sports reporter, he could be beaten up by anyone.

Even possibly Seagal.

Steve Seagull, therefore, beats Van Damn! He hit me again!

- Zhirrzh

Let me say first, I hate Steven Seagal, he's fat, talentless, and according to some of my friends in the movie biz, the biggest jerk in holywood, but i think he will win this fight...Why you ask?....because I read on a movie page that he is gonna be cast as Ghengis Khan, Why does this help him you ask?.....well you'd think the part of McBain has to be the most one dimensional role ever...but you wouldnt say this if youve ever seen "The Conquoror", with the late, great John Wayne as the lord of the mongol hordes.....yes the Duke played Ghengis Khan,It was one of the most laughable pathetic performances in history(but damn funny), and if Seagal is a wooden enough actor to land the part of GK, then he's perfect for McBain, plus, i cant see McBain doing girly-man type stuff like doing the splits......

- Amish Commando

Yes they are past their prime, whenever that was. Yes neither can act, but at least Van Damme can smile. And Yes both men have a fond fascination for beads (Seagal, for "love" beads, and Van Damme for anal beads).

That isn't the deciding factor in this battle, the deciding factor in this battle is NAME. Throughout history i can think of no man, nor woman named STEVE (except for McQueen, but his birth name was really Gunner) who could fight like a man. Speilberg is the behind the scenes guy, Hawking is the cripple dude, Martin is the wild and crazy guy, Miller is the joker, and Baldwin speaks for itself(i.e. Biodome). However, VAN DAMME is one helluva street fighting name. U cant say "Super Steveage", but you can say "VAN DAMMAGE". It is all in the name, plus Van Damme guest starred on friends, which i consider the new Betty Ford center ever since Charlie Sheen was on.

Aside from the name all Jean-Claude needs is a nice sack of cocaine, which will get him in the pant-splitting mood to kick poneytail's ass. The other reason for Van Damme's victory is spelled out with two simple words...MY GIANT. Van Damme has done some bad shit, but no one can recover from a low such as My Giant. With that edge it is easy to see why Van Damme will do some fierce brazilian ass whupin.

- T-Bone Timmy

Van Damme: (rips off his shirt) "Ay keenut unnnerstond a werd yu zay! Prepair tu diye!" (assumes pretentious martial-arts fighting stance)

Seagal: *mumble*mumble*squint*mumble*mumble* [subtitle: "I can't understand a word you say! Prepare to die!] (assumes different, but equally pretentious, martial-arts fighting stance)

Van Damme: (roundhouse kicks Seagal in the face)

Seagal: (punches Van Damme three times in quick succession)

Van Damme: (performs flamboyant splits as Seagal wrestles with latent homosexual urges)

Seagal: (waves a Sykes-Fairbairn combat knife in the air, then kicks Van Damme backwards into a phone booth)

Van Damme: (grunts and butts Seagal in the face)

Seagal: (squints and kicks Van Damme backwards into a vending machine)

Van Damme: (cuts off Seagal's vanity ponytail)

Seagal: (cuts off Van Damme's vanity ponytail)

Van Damme: (forces Seagal to watch 'Universal Soldier')

Seagal: (forces Van Damme to watch 'The Patriot')

Van Damme: Zees ees not werking, mon ami. We arr too, 'ow yu zay, evenlee match-ed. Let uz stop zis match and haf zom vine! (pours Seagal a big glass of Chateau Morgage, '59)

Seagal: (sips contemplatively, then snaps off the bowl of the wineglass and slams the broken stem into Van Damme's carotid artery)

Van Damme: Ay give oop, yu ar a mootch beetar actor! (dies)

Seagal walks out into the street. The struggle was hard. Watching "Universal Soldier" nearly killed him. As he stumbles up the sidewalk, he clumsily pushes a hippie into the gutter. "Man, that is SO uncool!" says the hippie. Suddenly there appears on the street, out of nowhere, a barefoot half-Indian, half-Anglo, wearing a poncho and a black hat with a wide brim and a beaded band. "I'm going to put this right foot on your left cheek," he announces to Seagal, "and there's nothing you can do about it!" THWACK! With a single kick, Seagal is killed by . . . Billy Jack. "What a senseless waste!" Billy says, running a hand over his face in a desperate attempt at acting. Seagal and Van Damme are buried in the local cemetery later that day by the hippies as they sing "One Tin Soldier." Tom Laughlin goes on to run for public office.

- Deacon

Everyone knows that both men arent real!

Ted Turner, using the new ILM technology, created those two men from Fabio novels and Men's Fitness as to begin his masterplan for taking over the world. By creating those two, and many other experiments(Jeff Speakman, Thomas Ian Griffith, and Pauly Shore)Ted was able to fill his networks with enough mind numbing crap, that instead of most of middle America become more educated, they became dumber and dumber only by watching movies with three word/one syllabel titles (Hard to Kill, etc...). His dream of world conquering is now becoming a full on realism because of all the "Movies for Guys who like Movies" on TBS, and Wrestling on TNT. Slowly his TCM station will start integrating Gary Busey movies, then Seagal movies, then OH DEAR GOD NO...Don "The Dragon" Wilson movies. After this occurs, nothing will stop him! NOTHING!

All i can say is turn off your TV...start reading Faulkner or Walden. IT is the only hope for our survival..PLEASE PLEASE I BEG OF YOU TO DO SO!


Once again, French combat ability (or lack thereof) points the path to victory. Now, you may claim that being from Belgium makes Van Damme immune to this taint (mere French speaking alone cannot denote weakness; witness Canada) but consider history, specifically WWI and WWII. In both cases, Belgium was invaded and overrun by the Germans, who, as any vicious predators will do, instinctively prey upon the weaker before attacking the stronger. Now, why did the Germans invade Belgium each time? To gain a better position to attack FRANCE! Anybody considered WEAKER than the French has got some serious wimpiness issues to work out; even if this reputation is in fact not deserved by the Belgians (anybody who can get Indiana Jones to fight in THEIR army can't be that pathetic), the blow to Jean-Claude's perceived ability to back up his words will cost his one liners the impact needed to win over Seagal in the witticisms part of the contest.

- "Mad Dog" Mike

Sometimes you have to stop thinking about every tiny little facet so damn hard and simply lean back, gaze at the stars, and wonder, "What would Weird Al Yankovic do?"

I bet he'd go with Van-Damme.

- Phat Cheops

Although Van Damme is about 40 times more in shape than Seagal, I still pick our flabby pony-tailed all-American boy. Why? Two reasons:

1) Witticisms: There are two classic Seagal bon mots that you guys didn't mention, that clearly prove his superiority in this regard. The first is in Hard To Kill, and it followed the ramming of a pool cue down a bad guy's throat: "That's for my wife, fuck you and die!" Short and to the point. The second was in the one with the killer Jamaican drug dealer twins, whom Steve-boy described as follows: "One of them thought he was God; the other thought he could fly. They were both wrong." He's a poet even! What does J-C V. D. have to respond with? In Hard Target, when his character, Chance, was asked about the origin of his name, he responded, "My mother took one." Eh? I think not.

2) Belgianitude. The extreme wussiness of the surrender-prone French has been frequently noted in this forum. What does this say about the Belgians? This is country that has been invaded twice this century, not because of any merit of its own, but just because it was less trouble to conquer than it would have been to go around. The only country more pathetic is Luxembourg; Belgium may keep getting invaded because it's on the way to Franca, but Luxembourg keeps getting invaded because it's on the way to Belgium.

- the fabulous frooboy

Seagal in 15 seconds.

As an experienced Martial Artist (13 yrs of training, Black Belt in Kenpo, Kungfu and Jiu Jitsu, Green Belt in Tae Kwon Do), I can tell you that Van Damme's Moves are phonier than a three dollar bill.

Here's how it'll go:

Van Damme gets the first shot off, like you said. Seagal slowly wipes the blood off his lip and says "That's a nice try, but let me show you how a REAL man fights."

Van Damme, powered by The Rage (TM) launches into one of his patented Jumping-Spinning-Flipping-Flying Split kicks. This seals Van Damme's Fate for two reasons:

1. Without the aid of camera trickery, the kick will have no power, take forever, and look ridiculous to boot. Seagal will see the kick coming, go get a cup of coffee, read through the script, win the acting segment, and then come back and stop the attack.

2. Seagal is a master of Aikido, a "soft" Martial Art. This means he can use an opponents strength and momentum against them. This means he can turn Van Damme's RAGE (TM) against him.

As Van Damme's Kick comes flying around, Seagal simultaneously parries the kick and strikes VanDamme's ludicrously exposed groin. Van Damme, his momentum drastically shifted, flies awkwardly inot the wall and crumples into the wall.

Seagal straightens his tie, makes sure his hair is alright, and walks over to Van Damme, who is standing, though barely. Van Damme, seeing failure imminent, throws one final punch. Seagal blocks the punch, whips Van Damme around in a circle, and throws an elbow strike which snaps Van Damme's arm like a twig.

As if thats' not enough, Seagal then uses the jagged piece of bone protruding from Van Damme's arm to stab The Muscles from Brussels in the chest. Seagal then simply grabs Van Damme's shoulders and throws him through the large window in the back of the office.

Thinking it's over, Seagal walks to the edge and looks over. Van Damme's good arm whips up and grabs his ankle. Seagal looks calmly down at him, pulls out a rather large handgun, says "Now look what you've done, you've gotten blood on my favorite suit", and promptly blows his head off.

So you see, it doesn't matter who's the better "actor" (neither could act if their life depended on it), since Van Damme won't survive the first test anyway.

- Ajota

It's really simple.

Seagal has sported a ponytail in the past.

McBain with a ponytail is like Attila the Hun in a lace nightie. Like a 200-pound Rottweiler wearing a dog sweater. Like the Beastie Boys playing Barry Manilow. Geddit?

- Shem

While usually a Van Damme fan, if you can call anyone that, I had to go with Seagal on this one, basically for two reasons.

Chuck Zito beat up Van Damme, and Seagal seems to emulate Zito's style of no-nonsense dirty-as-I-wanna-be bludgeoning.

Secondly, we know that if this is a Dreamworks production, 'the good guy' has to win, and even though I'm not sure how often Seagal was 'the bad guy,' I know that Van Damme was the near-nameless thug in at least the classics BLACK EAGLE and NO RETREAT, NO SURRENDER.

Note: 'The bad guy' does not include being an unorthodox, muscle-minded cop or a wrongfully convicted victim of the justice system.

- ex-WVU Chuck

WAIT A MINUTE! Every point comes with an episode/movie reference. Logic is rambling nonsense. No evidence of reason or competent social interaction.

DAMN!!! Trekkies have taken over Ground Zero!!!!

The effects were so gradual, I didn't even notice. I let my guard down and look what happens!

On behalf of the Ground Zero staff not infected, I do hereby apologize to all of the Ground Zero fans for the disease contaminating our ever-so-humble web site. If all goes well, we'll have the afflicted ones cured in 55 minutes (including commercials).

Until then, live long and prosp....OH NO! IT'S CONTAGIOUS!!!

For the love of my pocket protector, we're DOOMED!!!

- "Mark it so" Wentz

I refer you to "Nerdlinger™" Wentz' response in the Spock/Data matchup where he refers to a Simpsons' episode by the obscure production code. Fanboy, thy name is Wentz. - John

Boys, boys, boys! It is completely obvious that Seagal will kick ass and take names. Why? Two reasons:

1) Seagal is Buddist. And according to Buddist faith, you get reincarnated until your work on Earth is done. If we follow this rule, Steven will be nigh-immortal during the match until the French Wench is destroyed (yes, I know, he's not really French, but you try rhyming Belgium!).

2) Seagal does not lose. Ever. Period. Whenever Van Damme makes a kickboxing movie, he loses at least once for dramatic effect. Seagal is not worried about such trivialties and will proceed to dish out the Whoop-Ass(tm)(hey, how do you make those little tm's? I find so many uses for them and I can't make them work!) in gigantic quantities. This is a man whose hands move faster than all the feet in Riverdance.

Final shot: Seagal stands over Van Damme, who is literally twisted into a pretzel.

"Would you like some salt, Brussel sprout?"

Seagal plunges his fingers into the Jean Claude's chest, and rips out his beating heart-

"Or maybe, you would care for some ketchup?"

-and squeezes the organ, which rapidly bursts. Seagal walks away.

"He should have watched what he was eating."

- Tracer "Hard to Spill" Malone

In a straight fight, Seagal perhaps. But let's not forget... this is an audition. The role is the deciding factor.

McBain is a mesomorph body type [average, with the potential for musculature]. So is Van Damme. Seagal is an ectomorph [tall, thin]. He's not physically suited to the role.

In McBain-type movies, the hero always gets the crap beaten out of him several times before the final credits. When has Seagal EVER been seriously injured in a movie?

The role goes to Van Damme.

- Jon Garland

I will attempt to use logic for this fight, so I don't expect to be posted but I must speak.

Van Damme doesn't know how to fight. He's fake and hated in the martial arts community.

Seagal is 8th degree black belt in Aikido. He knows what he's doing and is respected in the martial arts community. He also worked for the Columbian Intelligence Agency (CIA). I wouldn't mess with anybody who did that and Van Damme shouldn't either.

Van Damme will go down faster than he did at the bar with Chuck Zito!

- Sage of Halo

As much as I hate Seagal, he's going to be the winner. I mean, he's a Buddist Holy Man, has never been beat up in his movies (except as a plot device in Hard to Kill), and remains in practice by bullying smaller people around him. In a worst case scenario he can pull out his guitar and drive Van Damme into madness by playing his Razzie winning sond from Fire Down Below. And of course, he has the perfect skills to direct McBain: The Movie from his experiance with his On Deadly Ground.

Now, there's a million reasons to hate Seagal, but the man is unbeatable. He's an unstopable force powered by his own nigh-infinite ego and when he starts going there's no stopping him. Van Damme will be taken down when he grabs a gun and Seagal flips it around and shoots him. Then Seagal's head implodes under his ego's gravitational pull causing the roll of McBain to go to formerly unknown actor Rainier Wolfcastle.

- Joel Mathis

Not that I'm any Van Damme fan but I had to vote for him. The last Seagal movie I saw, he got sucked out of an airplane while KURT RUSSELL of all people made it across. This is obviously an indication that his movie career is almost over and regardless of how well he fights or cracks wise, he cannot overcome his Hollywood Destiny(TM).

- Hatter

I voted for Van Dammitt only because there wasn't a third choice. Lets face it, Seagull and Van Dammitt are about as tough as "Statler" and "Waldorf", the two Muppets (tm) in the balcony. If Seagull gets any fatter he'll have his own zip code. I figure the only way Van Dammitt can win is because he is hyped up on cocaine. The last person Seagull beat up was his ex-wife Kelly LaBrock.

- Chet

I'm going for Seagal here, for one mere reason: Van Damme was in STREET FIGHTER! Not only does that knock off points for being in a movie based on a video game(with all due respect to the up-and-coming Final Fantasy movie...), but he played as Guile! Although the "Movie- Based-On-A-Video-Game" factor may be countered by the "In-A-Movie- With-Raul-Julia" factor, a guy with a Belgian accent playing as the All-American is NOT a pretty sight. And I doubt that Van Damme'll be pulling off any Sonic Booms or any other "magic moves" this time! But I digress.

Although some may decide to go with Van Damme because of his accent, let's have a reality check. Since when has Dreamworks made sense in their decisions? I mean, does ANYONE remember any of their movies (excluding Antz)?! I saw that movie with the mouse in that house not too long ago with my six-year-old cousin, and I don't even REMEMBER what the damn thing was called! Therefore, I determine that Seagal will be cast for his LACK of an accent. Although Jackie Chan could take both Van Damme AND Seagal, and that's a FACT!

- Colonel Zippo Kanaza, the Queen of All Tat are Video Games

The fact that VanDamme can act shall be his downfall. Only VanDamme and not Seagal has been directed by the great John Woo (Hard Target). Woo is not a man to let moronic one-liners glut his movies, he prefers a sense of style (TM). This exposure to style (TM) has forever reduced VanDamme's ability to make stupid quips. This will tip the scales in favor of Seagal who will end up fighting the greatest evil known to man, the Communist-Nazis.

- Chris Maune

it all comes down to their names here. when the movie is announced, just the name "jean claude" inspires excitement, not to mention "van DAMME!" anyway, the name steven seagal, much like my 9th grade science teacher's name stephen segal, inspires boredom and sleep. i certainly had enough of that in physical science. no need for it in the box office.

- d.g.

People from Belgium are collectively hated by people from France. This makes them my vote for anything.

- John

Just as the two combatants square off in what is sure to be the most thrilling Grudge Match of All Time(TM), a sudden explosion rips through the room! As the smoke clears, a hulking, yellow figure steps through the wall.

"I am the real McBain," booms a voice, "and I'm here to take both you phonies down!"

It's Reinier Wolfcastle, the REAL star of the McBain Movies!!!! He squares off against Seagal...but just as he leaps into action, one of his laces gets untied!

"Oh crap," says Wolfcastle, "Hang on."

As he bends over to tie his shoes, Seagal picks up the table and brings it down on Wolfcastle's back.

"Brilliant! Brilliant I tell you!" Cries Spielberg. He continues, "Wait wait...I'm having a vision...ah ha! Great! Ok, we'll put both of you in the'll be about two brothers, only one is evil! Their both Jews, and one of them is in a concentration camp! Yea yea! And its in the middle of the Carribean, filled with mutated dinosaurs! Oh this is the good brother enlists in the army, with Tom Cruise, and they have to go save him...we'll call it 'Jurassic Saving Private Schindler's Park'! Brilliant!"

After a slight pause and a nod, Seagal and Van Damme use their bare hands to hack Spielberg to small bits. Winner: America!

A few days later, C. Montgomery Burns asks Senor Spielbergo to do the movie, casting him in all the roles.

Viva Senor Burns!!!!!!

- Brian C. Strock, esq

I voted for Jean-Claude because he has a cuter tush and because I saw this horrid little video on Entertainment Tonight, where Seagal and wife Kelly LeBrock are in front of a fireplace, and Seagal is wearing pj's and a dressing gown. He's basically saying that red wine goes with meat and white wine goes with fish.

On the basis of the vanity video, I gotta say that Seagal is a wuss. He deserves to lose, painfully.

By the way, if Speilberg actually wasn't trying to lose money on this movie, he'd scrap the McBain concept and get a story to feature the hottest action heroine on the planet, Michelle Yeoh. Not only can she kick butt better than Jackie Chan, she looks way healthier than the men.

- The Imp

Unbeknownst to Steven Spielberg, his buds, Jean Claude, and Steven Seagal, the little chinese window washer waiting outside is just listening to them.

"I like to let people talk and see how full of *@$# they are." (Rush Hour)

He breaks in using an African bracelet, pulls out his bucket and aluminum ladder(tm, c, r) and makes Jean Claude into a Belgian waffle. Then, he, through his skills in martial arts and stunts, gets Steven Seagal to charge him and run out the window. "You know he's dead" (Chris Tucker, Rush Hour)

- Tristan "Wipe yourself off, you're dead" Pratt

I had to vote for Steven Seagal. Even though he's getting kind of fat and always walks around with that scrunched up "I'm thinking, really I am!' kind of look on his face, I can't get over the fact that Jean Claude Van Dumb is seriously trying to build a shelter from armageddon. As if a few layers of steel and concrete are going to protect him from THE WRATH OF GOD(tm). What a retard.

- - S|GmA

Van Damme holds up his hands, takes a step back, and takes off his shirt, revealing his chiseled musculature.

Following Van Damme's lead, Seagal holds up his hands, takes a step back, and takes off his shirt. Doughy white flab flows out from under his belt, like Rapunzel's hair at the call of her Prince Charming. Speilberg, Katzenburg, and Giffen burst into laughter.

Steven Seagal is ... Under Qualified.

Milk from 1962 shoots out of Jean Claude Van Damme's nose. Exposed by this toad-like display, his machismo takes ...

Maximum Van Dammage. (Milk from the '50's also shoots out of Steven Speilberg's nose.)

So who lands the coveted McBain role? The only actor good enough to play Nick Fury, of course. The man single-handedly responsible for making Baywatch the highest rated show on international television. The only action hero invited to sing when they tore down the Berlin Wall (Say it with me now):

David Hasselhoff.

- Michael Leung

I see Stevie on a busy street corner holding a sign which says "Will kick ass for food."

- Eric Zawadzki

You mean there dropping Rainer Wolfcastle from the part?!!! It wont be McBain it'll just be some trashy slugfest cum bulletstorm with a few quasimemerorable soundbites which will all be shown in the trailer!!

Cool I'll watch it

- Joe

First off, Seagal managed to teach a Baywatch babe (Erika Eleniak) how to load and fire a 16-inch naval rifle (Under Siege). Anyone who can teach a Baywatch star any skill besides Slow-Motion Beach Running and Looking Hot in Red Spandex can accomplish anything.

Second, Seagal will receive assistance from beyond the grave, namely from the spirit of Raul Julia, whose distinguished film career was most unfortunately capped off with the abomination known as Street Fighter: The Movie, starring Jean-Claude Van Damme. Surely a man who once played Santa Anna, Aristotle Onassis, and Gomez Addams won't pass up an opportunity to exact vengeance on the man who got him cast as a videogame character for his last role. (And don't call me Shirley.)

Finally, Ranier Wolfcastle will be alerted by the owner of The Android's Dungeon that Van Damme once played the part of a "Gay Karate Man". Not wishing his name to have any connection to homosexuality, however tenuous, Mr. Wolfcastle will storm the studio and cut down Van Damme in a hail of gunfire.

- Aero

Lord, what I wouldn't do for a "Both Maimed And/Or Killed" button...

Only one man would have the acting chops and ability to morph into any character he chooses:

"Hi, I'm Troy McClure...You may remember me from such films as 'Go For the Jugular,' and 'Your Commie Ass is Mine.'"

- Hi, I'm Vlad the Wonder Hamster. You may remember me from such matches as "Death vs. Taxes" and "Waldo vs. Carmen..."

OK, once again we experience the severe lack of a "both mangled and/or killed" button. Let's see what we can do without it.

Unknown to both contestants there is a fourth person [sort of] in the room. A Predator, in all its invisible glory, is looking for something worth killing. It looks at the two contestants. In an attempt to make the fight a fair one, it sneaks into the closet and starts taking off weapons. It puts down the BFG [tm], the spear, the claw thing, etc. It leaves during the first roundhouse kick.

By the time it returns with a spoon from the employee cafeteria things have gotten messy.

"So, is it true that stuntmen are scared to work with you ?" mutters the DeNiro-esque Seagal, delivering an atomic wedgie that would be the envy of the whole fifth grade.

"Well, is it true that you bought your last rank?" gasps the Beast from Belgium, breaking free with a brutal Purple Nerple. The two washed-up thugs back off and head for the corners.

"Steroids make you stupid, you know that?" the ponytailed pugilist hisses.

"Well, I know pasta makes you fat, which you don't seem to have figured out."

At this point the Predator turns visible, tapping the spoon on its wristguard. Both opponents turn to face this new threat.

The kickboxer is first to the quip.

"You are uglier than, um, something really ugly!" A flying, spinning, roundhouse, kick to the chest plate leaves the alien as unmoved as the attempted witticism. A punishing gouge to the solar plexus leaves Jean-Claude curled up in a little ball gasping, "Script doctor!"

The more ponderous Seagal makes his move. "You are going to be sorry that your mother ever gave b. . .ever. . . raised you." He grasps the Predator's non-weapon arm and does some complex Aikido move that would make a normal man cry like a baby. Unfortunately, the Predator is 100% all-alien and the arm bends comfortably. The Predator then whacks Seagal on the forehead hard enough to bend the spoon at a right angle, dropping him to his knees.

As the alien walks towards the Closet of Dangerous Toys, the producer says, "Come back here! I have a part for you!"

The hunter from the sky makes a dive for his self-destruct. . .but it is too late by far.

Final scores:

Van Damme, 2 out of 10 for wisecracks, 2 out of 10 for combat, total 4 /20.
Seagal: 3 out of 10 for wisecracks, 2 out of 10 for combat. Total 5/20
Predator: 0 out of 10 for wisecracks, 9 out of 10 for combat. Total 9/20.

I voted for Seagal. . .but I didn't like it.

- boltcutter

Hear me out - because I really don't care about how either Van Damme or Seagal can't act. My argument is based on which one would be more popular in the role of McBain.

First of all, hero's should be taller than five-foot nothing! Saving the world in heels is for women. Seagal wins in this category.

Second, what guy wants a hero who is constantly doing the splits whether standing or flat on the ground? What kind of moron exposes their reason for living to that much abuse! Van Damme may be flexible but every martial artist cringes at his incompetent portrayal of self-defense. Have you ever seen Seagal mindlessly exposed to a bop to the nuts?

Did I mention Van Damme is vertically challenged?

What about that 'lump' on Van Damme's head? Do we want someone for a hero who is weak enough or slow enough to be crowned - leaving the evidence for all to see? Seagal has no visible lump's on his head.

Isn't McBain's character TALL...

How about this - Seagal fought punks in the streets of Japan, some who may have belonged to the Yakuza. He was also a real Government agent and can kill with experience by gun or open hand. Although he has bad Karma, at least his history has substance. Van Damme on the other hand was knocked down by a bouncer and his previous battle experience was in the sissy ring with rules to protect him from harm.

Do people really want to see a hero on screen when they know he is standing on a milk crate through the whole movie?

Further more Seagal doesn't need slow motion effects to make him look good. Slow motion effects are used to make something look more powerful, Van Damme NEEDS these effects to make him look good.

In my opinion, Seagal moves with (some) style. Van Damme has style too - for a Ballerina(I know, Ballerina's didn't deserve that comment, sorry).

As for acting ability, they both suck. But now you can VISUALIZE why Seagal would be a better choice than Van Damme.

- 5th GEAR

Point of Fact: Steven Seagal is a black belt in Aikido.
Point of Fact: Jean-Clod VanDame has no formal training in Martial Arts.

Come on, Pee-Wee Herman could kick VanDamme's ass! And as for glib remarks, here's a comment on Seagal from an admirer in his movie On Deadly Ground...

"He's the kind of Guy who would drink Gasoline to piss in your campfire! You could drop him off at the North pole wearing a G-string and two-weeks later he would show up in Mexico with a fist-full of pesos and an Attitude."

Courtesy R. Lee Ermey (A.K.A. GySgt. Hartman, Full Metal Jacket) [What is your major malfunction Numbnuts?]

For Christsake, why don't you just shoot VanDamme now and put him out of my misery. Seagal with a smile on his mister-sensitive-pony-tail face.

- -Stoopid Gold

As much as I like Seagal, I can't picture McBain wearing a jacket with fringe.

- Joe Cohen

As the Grudge Match progresses, we are treated to a dazzling display of gratuitous violence and lame one liners. JCVD probably does a bunch of those silly "spin three complete airborne revolutions while landing four kicks per foot per spin on opponenet's head" things that he's so lamous for, Seagal gives us at least one new-yet-ancient-in-spirit joke about just being a cook.

However, the facts remain that JCVD is a Belgian, (Begium: Even the French push us around!), and that there are no soft spots in SS's head to damage. Seagal eventually decapitates our Eurotrash friend with a katana that happens to be convieniently lying around.

However in a shocking twist, as Seagal turns to claim his prize, a spine shoots out from the sword, impaling him through the heart. His twitching corpse hangs momentarily from the ceiling, until the sword melts like mercury, re-forming into ... Arnold.

"You weren't going to make this movie without me, were you?" he demands. "McBain has inspired me."

Wisely leaving the subject of who inspired who alone, Speilburg quickly signs Arnold on to the movie. Of course, this makes _McBain_ into a comedy starring Arnold, damning it to horrible, ignomius failure, but Speilbirg is also canny enough to leave this subject alone. He just quietly plans to hand this project off to a less savvy director. Maybe Ron Howard ...

However, there is one question he can't help but ask. "Weren't you the *Other* Terminator?" he asks the bemuscled Austrian.

<Camera centers on Arnold> "I got a free upgrade," he quips.
<Camera pans down to Speilburg> Speilburg, pinned to his office wall by a spike through the eye, ventures no comment.

- martinl

Seagal is an ex-CIA opperative, well when has the CIA EVER had a successfull mission? Bay of Pigs, forgot to look at a map. JFK assination, never did a back check on a ex-defector who buys rifles. Vietnam, forgot to test effects of Agent Orange. Iran Hostages, didn't think that some guy in a turbin was dangerous. PAN-AM 100, thought Libyans were harmless. India nuclear test, thought the plutonium was for a Gandhi party.

So with a track record this bad, could Seagal have the brains to know not to fight a coked up Martial Arts champion. Nope I predict a beating wore than when David Spade put a hole in his head.

- Tom

Mike Royko, the late, great Chicago newspaper columnist, once wrote a column titled "Belgians Are Just French Hillbillies." So, before we look at any other factors, we basically have Mike's beyond-the-grave- sort-of-confirmation that what we have here is a battle between a short hillbilly and an akido master. Ooooh, there's a tough pick. But it gets even worse for Van Damme from there, because Seagal can be expected to use this information to his advantage.

Seagal has in the past conducted hand-to-hand combat training for the special forces units based out of Hurlburt Field in Florida, an Air Force Base. Being affiliated with the Air Force, Mr. Seagal always makes sure he has access to the latest intelligence, so he knows that this McBain role will be coming up. Also, he knows the value of knowing one's enemies. He will research Van Damme, and by extension, Belgians. It's only a matter of time before he comes across that old Royko column, and the key to victory. Knowing that Hillbilly = Redneck, his next stop is Jeff Foxworthy's website.

Fast forward to the day of reckoning. The two combatants face each other, and Van Damme is just opening his mouth to deliver a crushing ponytail-related wisecrack, when Seagal takes the initiative.

"Is your mother out yet?"

"My mother?" asks a puzzled Van Damme.

"Yeah, I heard she got 5 years for possum poaching. By the way, does she still keep that spit cup on her ironing board?"

At first, Van Damme is confused. How does this man know so much about his mother? But his puzzlement is followed by a growing inferno of rage welling up within his soul, because nobody disses his Mama.. With a scream, he leaps at Seagal, all fighting style forgotten in his rage. As we all know, the secret to beating one's opponent in a martial arts movie is to get him to attack you in blind anger. Seagal coolly delivers a series of alternating backhands and hooks, beating him like someone else's' dog and driving the battered Belgian to his knees before him. Borrowing a plastic fork from Katzenberg's lunch (tofu and bean sprout casserole surprise with cilantro, if you must know), Seagal delivers his coup de grace line.

"Since you don't have any forks in your family tree, let me donate one". He then stabs the fork into Van Damme's solar plexus, and heaves him out the convenient plate glass window. Arms windmilling, he falls in slow motion for about 30 stories before (as predicted) landing on a tanker truck, which explodes, destroying all the remaining plate glass for 3 miles around. With the McBain part in the bag, Seagal shakes hands with his three new bosses and heads home for a nice celebratory dinner with Kathie Lee and the kids. And he didn't even have to use the "picking up women at your family reunion" joke.

- Mr. Silverback- Able to trash multiple bozos with his 3rd degree black-belt in Tae Kwon Leap. Don't try this at home, kids.

Van Damme's had an action figure made of him (from the Street Fighter movie).

Seagal could be mistaken for his own wax statue.

And even if Jean Claude lost, he'd just go back in time, maybe before Steven Seagal was born, and kill his mom, ala Terminator. Poof, no competition.

- MonkeyDog

I just like to say that in all reality Seagal would squelch Van Damme in an instant. Sure Steve's out of shape, but my firned who is 320 can do spin kicks above my head with lightning speed so skill hasn't as much to do with fitness. Second while Van Damme can do a couple cut COREOGRAPHED moved he has virtually no training. He was in the friggin' ballet for Chrisakes!!!. Some one saw him do the splits and said "Hey... that's be real cool on the T.V.!!!". Seagal has a very disciplined martial art form under his belt, Akido as well as much more training in real martial arts.... not rehearsed dance steps. So Seagal would watch Van Damme do his cute little splits then kick his nuts up through the top of his skull.

- Robert Coughler

Van Damme all the way! Seagal couldn't even beat David Spade (on celebrity deathmatch). And there is no way Seagal could out-wit Van Damme either. The most witty thing he said was "You will cease to exist". If that's witty, I'm a hippo. Basically, Seagal and his fruity ponytail are gonna get creamed.

- Ben check out my website at

Oh, c'mon! Celebrity Deathmatch isn't real... - John.
Rumour has it the results are all scripted ahead of time... - Eds

Seagal only ever beats up guys who can't fight back. When does he ever take a punch? Jackie Chan, Bruce Willis, now those guys take it as well as dish it out. Seagal's back was in the sights of Micheal Caine's mercenary (On Deadly Ground) but the merc who decides to wait a while before shooting so he gets taken out. Against anyone with an IQ over room temperature Seagal doesn't even make it to the second half of the movie (Executive Decision).

I give this to the ballet dancer from Brussels, but only because all the cocaine probably gives him higher pain tolerance.

- --John Hunter

First of all I must say that the Thinkmaster really underthought himself here. Seagal is totaly going to lose this match. Simply for exactly the same reasons he stated. Mainly, Seagal's use of exotic weaponry to defeat his opponets. Is there any cue sticks, kives, shotguns, or any other household items in the office where this match takes place? Huh? I didn't think so. Van Damn in 30 sec.

- Steven Macman Simison

If John knew how much Steven Seagal is a pretentious, bloated, pathetic chop-socky environmentalist wimp, he would have never thrown his miserable two-cents in Seagal's favor. True story: ol' Stevie got his flabby ass kicked by a stuntman on the set of "Above the Law". Apparently, Seagal was in a bad mood (probably because a spotted owl died that morning) and started threatening a group of stuntmen, claiming he will "kick anyone's ass". One of them, an akido black belt himself, finally got fed up with Stevie's b.s. and promptly spanked him like a vandal in Singapore. He used a full-nelson (as opposed to Dave's one-half) that left pansy-ass Seagal unconscious for hours. When lil' Stevie came to, he destroyed that stuntman's career (that guy is just now finding work again). Now, how could anyone rally for a sad-ass loser like this? As for Van Damme, he was sued by a stuntman when one of those fancy kicks of his accidently shattered a few of the poor guy's bones. That being said, those events will repeat themselves right there in the Dreamworks studio: Seagal=unconscious, Van Damme=lawsuit over broken bones. As for Spielberg, he'll decide that this sort of un-PC violence is unsuitable for children, kiss-ass critics, and his chances for obtaining Sainthood(TM). Instead, he'll make a film that will heal the great divide between postmen and dogs, and win about a couple hundred more Oscars.

- Armor King

I've seen just a few movies containing these two nominees for the William Shatner Memorial Award for Bad Acting (tm), and I have to say that if I were to pay to see either of them, it'd be to see Van Damme. I really liked Bloodsport, I mean, it had everything! The heartbreak over his master, the girl, the revenge for his friend, and kicking that big f*cker's @ss at the end, even AFTER he went and cheated; what more could you want!!! Under Siege lacked these aspects, although you can't go wrong with nudity, either. No matter how you slice it, Van Damme makes better movies than Seagal (using the term "better" very loosely to mean not worse), and can definitely kick more ass than the portly American. Hate to buy import, but it's the better (again, used very loosely) product.

- Adam B.

So here we have yet another installment of the Close Match Series (TM). It took me a great deal of thinking time spanning several hundred seconds to come up with the following answer. So, class, try to stay with me here.

Looking at all the quotes from the various movies, it is clear that our fighters are pretty much dead even in the snappy lines arena. Therefore it is going to be pure pummeling power that decides this match. But once again, there is no clear advantage to either of the fighters in the power area. So it must come down the ultimate Grudge Match Factor--outside help. So let's start with Seagal. At his disposal is the entire town of Lansing, MI. Here we have a hearty bunch of folk hardened in the Michigan winter. Unfortunately, Michiganders are unable to give or receive directions if they can't use their left hand as a map. (Ask anyone from Michigan where they live and you'll see what I mean) This means that with the exception of a few amputees who have developed new ways of navigating, no one from Lansing will be able to find the match.

That brings us to Van Damme. I will assume that the population of Brussles will be unable to get Transatlantic tickets and will regretably be absent from this match. So that leaves one one group to help Van Damme--Pittsburghers. As you all no doubt recall, in Sudden Death, Van Damme made a key save in the 3rd period of the 7th game of the Stanley Cup Finals when he was dressed as Ken Wregget. This simple act of Hockey Genius (TM) has forever endeared Van Damme to the city of Pittsburgh. Considdering how much everyone in the city would like to avoid the Pittsburgh February, we can be assured that the whole city will be up for the trip. In addition, the whole city is a tough and brutal lot not only from their work in the steel mills, but more importantly from drinking mass quantities of Iron City Beer, possible the worst brew on the planet. Furthermore, considdering the closing of the afformentioned steel mills, as well as recent performances of the Steelers and Pirates, we can safely say the each Pittsburgher will have The Rage(TM.) Van Damme in 5 minutes.

- Hughes

In the true spirit of Grudgematch, the one-liners are a wash. It all comes down to the fight, and Jean-Claude wipes the floor with Seagal for 3 reasons:

1. Age/Fitness. Van Damme is in great shape. Seagal needs to drop a couple pounds. Also, JCVD is about 10 years younger than the Ol' Buddist Geezer(tm). Your'e telling me the MUSCLES FROM BRUSSELS(tm) is losing to an old, out-of-shape has-been? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

2. Celebrity Deathmatch(tm). Both competitors lost on this show. Who beat 'em? Van Damme: Jackie Chan. SO FREAKIN' WHAT!? 99% of the world is incapable of defeating the Supercop(tm), so this is acceptable. Seagal: David Spade. DAVID FRICKIN' SPADE! I could easily kick his Rudy-Poo Candy-Ass(tm)! Seagal is in the 0.0000001% of the world who would lose to David Spade. 'Nuff said.

3. Dennis Rodman. As a last ditch effort, Van Damme can call in the Bad Boy. Sure, Double Team wasn't that good, but the alliance with Dennis was worth it to Jean-Claude. Seagal taps out after a Groin Kick(tm) and 2 headbutts. Oh, and Brendan, show some guts and FIGHT ME ON THIS VERY WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!

- Devin The Mental Hospital Escapee

Seagal, obviously. By his very nature, Van Damme can't win.

Train of thought: Belgian -> Waffles -> French Toast -> Anything French loses. Always.

btw, who has Kelly LeBrock?

- Switz

If ACT-ING is what it's all about, than how can you not go with Van-Damme? As you should know, one of McBain's classic modus operandi is the "mourning-the-vet-shot-down-on-his-last-day" scene(tm). If such a scene should occur in the McBain movie, and it should, who better than Jean Claude "NOOOOO!" Van Damme?

Case in point: Bloodsport. After watching the beer-swilling, all American fighter Donald Gibb(tm)get the tar kicked out of him at the Kumite, JC shows those pearly whites in a slow-mo,end-of-the-world NOOOO! as his hairy buddy goes down.

One better, during the final fight, after being doused by I-can't-see-s**t pills(tm), the "muscles from Brussels" rather than curling up and waiting for black, gets down on his knees and in a style worthy of any McBain movie yells "YAAAAAARRRRGGGHHH!" several times, in a display of McJaggeresque mouth manipulation, AND THEN beats the pulp out of his opponent while his eyes do that dilating thing(tm). Now that's ACT-ING.

Surely such physical control and extreme expression of emotion coupled with the controlled and otherwise collected persona of McBain would result in a movie persona to remember.

And as for Seagal, well, have you ever seen the man really let go? Happy, Sad, Dejected, Elated, Suicidal, Angry, Bored, how can you tell? He's like an Irish Setter, and even McBain needs more than that.

So I say JC, 'cause he can ACT.

- Can you say "YAAAAARRRGGHHH"(tm)?

To formulate a response for this match, I had to make a great sacrifice: I had to start paying attention to these two guys. Ground Zero™ owes me big.

It is axiomatic of these men that they have precisely one good movie apiece: Van Damme's Bloodsport, and Seagal's Under Siege. By seeing them at their best, we can judge how they stack up in head-to-head competition.

Van Damme: The toughest martial-arts experts on Earth, including that one scowling Chinese guy who can flex his breasts the way we wiggle our eyebrows. I get chills just thinking about it.
Seagal: Gary Busey, whose main claim to fame is crashing his motorcycle without a helmet; Colm Meaney, so lame that, despite playing Chief O'Brien on two Star Trek series, he hasn't even gotten into one of the movies yet; and Seagal's climactic opponent -- Tommy Lee Jones in a hippie wig.

Methods of Victory:
Van Damme: Kicking butt. Nothing but.
Seagal: Needed help from various crewmembers, plus the 16-inch guns of U.S.S. Missouri, one of the largest warships in history, plus -- well, see below.

Van Damme: A Harley biker who smashed a brick with his forehead.
Seagal: A Playboy centerfold. Ooh, don't hurt your pretty hands.

Van Damme: Not much. The Bobbing Boob Boy had better zingers.
Seagal: A few, but consistently upstaged in that department by Tommy Lee. Call it a draw.

The outcome is obvious. Van Damme carries the day in combat, and as for snappy comebacks, well, they won't be much use to Seagal when he's unconscious.

- Call me Shane

Neither one of them gets the part when McBain's perfect double is discovered in Springfield...MILHOUSE!

- JW

Attentive people will realize that this battle has been fought before. A horribly accented annoying francophile vs. a fat man who is getting fatter by the nanosecond. Van Damme can win this one and remove the Seagal threat entirely, if he remembers one line:

"But monsieur, it is only wafer thin."

And you thought Seagal's death was enjoyable in Executive Decision.

- Kilgore Trout

Let's take a look at the stats needed for McBainhood(tm):

1) Mediocre acting skills.
Well, Jean is a pretty mediocre actor.... I guess, but Seagal has him beat hands down. Need I remind you of the many faces of Seagal? Well, there's happy(see above picture), angry(same picture), horrified(you guessed it), and of course apathy(picture not available.... oh wait, it's the same one).
Jean - 0, Steven - 1

2) Crappy accent.
Although Seagal's monotone voice COULD be considered an accent, I think we both know that Jean has this one. Was he trying to sound American as Frank Dux?
Jean - 1, Steven - 1

3) Physical prowess.
Well, thats a very close matchup that could go either....(snicker,snicker).... I can't finish the sentence! Hahahaha!!
Jean - 26, Steven - 1

4) Witty remarks.
I'm sure both of these guys have had some one-liner doozies in their days, but can you really top Homer Simpson's Brain? Not only does it actually talk to Homer, but seems to run short 30's cartoons at will.
Jean - 26, Steven - 1, Homer's Brain - 1

I suppose Jean Claude would win, but wouldn't you rather see Homer's Brain whip out a comment or two as it blows away the minds of the enemy forces(tm) with such stunning realizations as "Food goes in here."?

- Shaft (I gotta quit watching the Simpsons.....)

When everything is properly choreographed, both "actors" have shown that they can open up a can of Whoop-Ass™ and quip some serious butt (or what looks to be serious, but in reality is kind of a joke, but we won't tell them that and shatter their precious worlds, now will we?).

The first factor in the selection process is the Look™. Which of these two pansies can best emote the McBain stare (pat. pend.)? Van Damme always looks like he is at least one step behind everyone else on the set, including the producer's "slow" 3rd cousin who thows out all the M&Ms with Ws on them. Seagal, on the other hand, looks like he is seriously constipated and too busy to worry about what is going on around him. Let's call this a wash, shall we?

Fighting styles leans a bit towards Seagal, simply because he seems to prefer inflicting compound fractures, as opposed to Van Damme's midair splits. A boot to the head is pretty nasty, but you tend to stop fighting when you see a bone sticking out of your skin. Also, Van Damme may look good jumping and kicking, but a patented Beavis and Butthead 'nad kick would negate all the muscles in Brussels.

Recent box office success of Seagal and Van Damme is pretty dismal. Van Damme's Legionnaire went direct to video, and Seagal's The Patriot is cable fodder. Clearly, these guys weren't the great choice they first seemed to be.

Realizing that neither competitor should ever have their likeness reproduced on any media, the Dreamworks crew finally decides that the best actor for "McBain: the Live-action movie" is Dirk Richter.

"I keep telling you, he's 73 years old and he's dead."

- HotBranch!

The fight starts out evenly. Seagal roundhouses Van Damme. "I'm here to do business." (Seagal, Marked for Death). Van Damme counters with an uppercut. "I'm the repo man...and you're out of business" (Van Damme, Street Fighter) Just then, the ghost of Bruce Lee appears. His soul is angered by the way these two have disgraced martial arts movies. He begins to kick Van Damme and Seagal all over the room. "Wooooaaaahhhhh" (Lee, any Lee movie) Seagal is the first to wake from his comma two weeks later, so he wins the part. "And that's the bottom line." (Austin, 3:16)

- Big Mike

While Seagal and Van Damme may think that their fists and quips are going to make a difference in this contest, the real decision comes down to what the heads of Dreamworks want. Let us take a look into their heads and see what they're thinking:

Steven Spielberg: Perhaps the greatest film director of our time, he wants to make Oscar winning movies that people enjoy. This is his personal hell. "Let's see. Well, maybe if I have total creative control, I can get this to work. But Seagal wants to produce and Van Damme wants to write. Scratch that. OK. What about talent? Van Damme has two movies in the Bottom 100 of the IMDB but only has one Razzie nomination while Seagal has handfuls of Razzie honors. AAARRRRGGGGHHH! I KNOW, I KNOW, maybe I could stick a fin on one of them and make Jaws 5! No, that's Marv Albert!" While Spielberg falls into the depths of madness, he grabs his head. "Eureka! How does Seagal keep his hair from moving? Maybe he can give some pointers to keep my rat's nest in place. Yeah, that's the ticket."

Seagal is the choice, and Spielberg escapes further torture with help of six gallons of Schlitz(tm). Who can blame him?

Paul Allen: The near- anonymous partner of this enterprise, Paul has the enviable ability to make tons of money and not be hated. He is the co-founder of Microsoft yet Bill Gates takes all the heat. He is the owner of not one but two professional sports teams and nobody bothers him about being greedy. He wants someone who will bring in the dough while not tarnishing his image.

Seagal: Last 6 movies average $45 million gross (USA). Sexual harassment and claims that he bought his Buddhist title charges fell into oblivion.
Van Damme: Last 6 movies average $20 million gross (USA). Beats wife. Looks suspiciously like a homosexual.

Tough choice there...

Jeffrey Katzenberg: This one is easy. In TIME magazine recently, there is a picture of Katzenberg hugging Vice President Al Gore. And I don't mean your friendly "I Love You, Man" kind of hug. No, we are talking your "Dog On Your Guests Leg at a Posh Dinner Party and Can't Be Kicked Off 'She Canna Take Anymore, Cap'n' Imus Rips You To Shreds Mega Humpty-Hump." With Hillary Rodham Clinton and Elton John (don't ask me) looking on in smiling approval no less. Clearly, Mr. Katzenberg has some serious hormonal issues when it comes to current administration. Get therapy!

What does this have to do with this decision? Well, Al Gore apparently gets most of his campaign funds from Buddhists. Seagal becomes the obvious choice as he is not only a Buddhist but is apparently the reincarnation of a 17th century High Lama Chungdrag Dorje of Palyul Monastery. Seagal with his Buddhist money connections might be able to get Jeffrey access to what's *in* Gore's pockets! As the fight goes on, visions of Seagal, Gore, rubber underwear, 3000 gallons of Oil of Olay and a yak go through his mind. No, you don't want to know.

David Geffen: He is the head of music division. First, he remembers that Seagal earned himself a Razzie nomination for Worst Song for "Fire Down Below" (and a related Razzie for Worst Couple with his guitar) and that he went "on tour" but he didn't actually sing. Not good. But at least he gets points for killing country singers in a movie.

But then he looks at Van Damme. Pretty boy. Not his real name. Rumors that he never actually won any karate championships, is not a black belt and is really just an overglorified ballet dancer. This sounds WAY TOO much like Vanilla Ice. Begone thou thing of evil. Seagal is chosen after he sticks a wooden stake through Van Damme's heart.

For better or for worse, Seagal IS McBain...

- Paul G. (who obviously did WAY TOO MUCH research for this match)


The Final Word

The only true victim here is the script.

- Budo

If you liked this match, check out these other past matches:

Bruce Lee v. Jackie Chan
Caine, the geriatric Kung Fu fighter v. Walker, the washed-up Texas Ranger
William Wallace v. Groundskeeper Willy

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