World Wide Web Fights Presents
What is Grudge Match?
What is Grudge Match?

The Scenario

At a Large Convention Center somewhere in the United States:
Speaker: Thank you, Mr. Wallace, for those wonderful remarks. That concludes this morning's session. The afternoon session begins at 1:30. For those who have some direct telephone marketing quotas to meet, there are phone jacks available in room 1134b. Have a good lunch.
[A herd of Telemarketers stampedes toward room 1134b.]

At the same Large Convention Center somewhere in the United States:
Speaker: Thank you, Mr. Williams, for those wonderful remarks. That concludes this morning's session. The afternoon session begins at 1:30. For those who have some direct electronic marketing quotas to meet, there are phone jacks available in room 1134b. Have a good lunch.
[A herd of Spammers stampedes toward room 1134b.]

The two herds collide at the entry of room 1134b. Battle ensues. The survivors get communication room privileges.

So, Steve, which group for greed gets to go gouge geriatrics and gullible geeks?




The Commentary

STEVE: Well, Mark, I think I need to go with the Telemarketers on this one. There are many reasons for this, but let's start with two: Sheer numbers and persistence. A convention of these demons has got to be huge. These fiendish scourges are everywhere, selling credit cards, aluminum siding, vacation cruises, windows, and magazine subscriptions. Even our local town-gossip newspaper has Telemarketers trying to sell subscriptions. And they never, ever rest or give up. Like the Borg, they learn how to dodge excuses and adapt themselves to win at any situation. For example, from just two days ago:

"Good afternoon, is Mr. Hernandez home?"
"Sorry, there's no one here by that name. I think you have the wrong number."
"No, I have the right number, probably just the wrong name."

Damn! Another excuse no longer working!

On the flip side, the Spammers have several things going against them which will be difficult to overcome. First, there just aren't going to be very many of them: maybe 100 or so. Clearly, the Telemarketers have this convention center booked, and the Spammers are just a side-show. And besides that, most of the Spammers are from Nigeria or China, so are likely to be either jet-lagged and groggy, or else having digestive problems with the convention center food. With low numbers, and weakened constitutions, the Spammers will be fodder for the Telemarketers. I predict that the Telemarketers will control the room in less than a minute, and the Spammers will be the proud new owners of vinyl siding for their houses.

MARK: No thanks. Please remove me from your calling list.

Oh, I'm sorry. You rambled on so long with no apparent purpose, I thought you actually WERE a Telemarketer. Again, my apologies.

In order to win a fight, you've got to have some fight in you. Have you ever listened to a Telemarketer? They seem to be even less interested in the product than am I. They mumble their way through their rehearsed spiel with total disregard for punctuation or pronunciation. You can practically hear them check their watches to see if it's quittin' time. No motivation whatsoever.

Meanwhile, the Spammers have some spunk in them. They seem more interested in my enjoyment than am I. Some of them even seem to find me sexually provocative! I never sense that from the mumbling guy trying to sell me some phone service.

I've even received spam offering to help me to stop getting spam. Ladies and gentlemen, that is gutsy! In any fight, I want this guy on my side.

On the other hand, Telemarketers don't even dial the phone; the computer does that for them. All they have to do is talk; and, as stated earlier, many of them can't do THAT right.

In short, by the time the Telemarketers will have rehearsed their battle-cry script, the quick and gutsy Spammers will have taken the room -- and the Telemarketers' credit card numbers!

STEVE: Clearly, the Telemarketers in your neck of the world are inferior to what I receive all too frequently on my phone. I can't even get a word in edgewise to tell them I'm hanging up on them. They are very motivated. You have to be when your income is commissions. It takes a lot more effort to talk for hours on end than it does to put a purchased CD of e-mail addresses into a drive and click on "Send".

Yes, the Spammers are a victim of the computer revolution, and are therefore as lazy as they can possibly be. It probably takes them all the effort they can muster to put down the Domino's Pizza and 3-liter jug of Diet Coke to reach up and click on "Send". Then they go back to laying on the couch and watching reruns on the SciFi channel.

The Telemarketers will easily win this match. And if the Spammers are lucky, maybe one of the Telemarketers will take the time to dial 9-1-1 to call for the ambulances the Spammers are going to need.

MARK: Sorry to use your arguments against you, but, if you had actually READ the link you cited, you would have noticed that Spammers have to move a lot. As someone who recently moved, I can tell you that it's a bit more effort than putting down a pizza and a soda. Man alive! You have to find a place, pack up, load up the truck, unload the truck, and unpack. And the paperwork; oh, the paperwork. And all of that minus the arm and leg it took to rent the truck. Now, that's a grade A effort!

Motivated Telemarketers? I'll give them full marks for remembering their training in how not to let a timid person hang up, but that's more defeated than motivated. They know before they start that they're in for a long ride with short odds of success. Defeated is no way to go into a competition. Some Telemarketers start out motivated--like the ones who are bewildered that you'd want to hang up before even hearing the offer--but they'll all be broken soon enough.

On the bright side, at least the Telemarketers will get to hear a familiar "click" as the Spammers lock them out of the room.

Thanks to Jordyn Marcellus for suggesting this match.

The Results


Telemarketers (1535 - 55.2%)



Spammers (1244 - 44.8%)

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Voter Comments


At the same Large Convention Center somewhere in the United States:
Speaker: Thank you, Mr. Wentz, for those wonderful remarks. That concludes this morning's session. The afternoon session begins at 1:30. For those of you who brought Rottweilers or a Rottweiler's weight in chihuahuas, there is some fresh meat in room 1134b. Have a good lunch.
[A herd of Rottweilers and chihuahuas stampede toward room 1134b. Sounds of throats being torn out by Rottweilers and digits being eaten by chihuahuas soon fills the Convention Center]

- Tristan, the Griffon Master

Silver Grudgie ROTW Silver Medal GrudgieTM

The Spammers and Telemarketers lie slumped against the overturned furniture. Dazed. Confused. A thousand mile stare in each of their eyes. All with one question on their mind:
"How did this happen?"

None can focus on an answer. for two Jehovas witnesses in the middle of the room. Smokin' up and checking out the names of their new converts. Both with one answer on their mind:

- Budo

Bronze Grudgie ROTW Bronze Medal GrudgieTM

You know telemarketers call right around dinner. Good thing too, my moms cooking is shit.

- Matt

Am I the only one here to remembers that some telemarketers are guys in prison? I only hope killing is all they do to the other guys.

- ex agent

Give it to the telelmarkters. Telemarketers are aggressive; spammers are just passive-aggressive. All passive-aggression can do is threaten; the aggressive can kill.

- Dr. Stones

It's a trick! The Spammers are trying to convince us to flood the Grudge Mailbox with cries for the "all mangled and killed" button!

- Green Armadillo

Steve, since when do you need to get any words in to tell the telemarketer you're hanging up? As soon as they start the salespitch, I hang up right away! Never give them any warning. As the Nike ads will tell you, Just Do It. I rarely get sales calls anymore because they seem to have removed me from their lists once they realized they can't get through their little spiel. That pretty much means there's no point to calling me.

That means the spammers have this one cold. They don't have to worry about finishing the pitch. As soon as you receive the email, they finish it. All at the touch of a send button. Steve, they are not lazy. They are fresh and ready for combat. They don't expend all the energy they need for this fight on sales calls. The telemarketers are exhausted by the greater effort they expend to do the job.

- mtk1701, who'd really rather toss the whole bunch from the roof of the convention center


- Bob


- Bob


- Bob


- Bob


- Bob

I have to give this to the spammers based on a (however slight) advantage in intellegence.


I have, in the past, actually been desperate enough for money that I have taken three (count 'em three) telemarketing jobs. They were as follows:

1.) Trying to sell fund-raising pizza kits to people who, for the most part, sounded so old they probably didn't even have TEETH.

2.) Trying to sell "PC's for Dummies" books to people who, for the most part, barely sounded smart enough to operate a pair of pinking shears, much less a home computer, and

3.) Selling all sorts of useless crap to people in South Florida who, for the most part, DON'T EVEN SPEAK ENGLISH.

Clearly, telemarketers have NO idea what the public needs (among many other flaws).

Now let's look at spammers, or, rather, the content of most spam. I happen to have just checked my email, and will now read you the titles of the last three spam messages I received:

1.) Get free Viagra NOW!
2.) Increase your manhood NOW!
3.) Hot teen Asian girls take it in the back door!

Say what you will about spammers, they at least know how desperate their target demographic can get.

- RoboGoober98 (Freud coulda been a spammer...)

As a loser with 56K who is always on the internet, telemarketers rarely bother me (Though, when they do, they think I'm a woman. This almost prompted for me to vote for them). However, for the past five days I have been instant messaged by the same guy asking me to go to his site. I have insulted him, begged him to stop, but he won't go away. Unlike Telemarketers, I can't get away from him.

Not only this, but telemarketers give up way too easily. All I have to say is "No, I'm not interested." Boom! They're gone, and they apologize for annoying me!
"I'm sorry, ma'am.... Do you know when your husband will be home?"
"Sorry, he's out on a business trip. And I'm a guy, and straight."
"OOOPS! Sorry, sir! What, are you like thirteen or something?"
"Um... yes." (Keep in mind this instance was two years ago.)
And also, telemarketers don't leave messages. Meanwhile, spammers will e-mail you. Constantly. They don't give up. The sheer persistence of the spammers will get to the telemarketers after a spammer kindly asks the telemarketers to leave. They will oblige, and the spammers get the win.

- Gosunkugi

...nope, not even gonna vote this time; I'm completely abstaining. And you've started my year off poorly, you know, failing to include a "all mangled and chopped up into little pieces and the pieces are burned and whatever's left is made into cat food, then the cats who ate it are all fed to wolves, who are then shot and thrown in a volcano" button.
'sides, not like the tenacious &$#%ers who design pop-up ads couldn't wipe them all up.

- Monkeydog
... then the volcanos are blown to smithereens, and the miniscule fragments are stomped all over, then shot into the sun, which is then exploded...

Around here, we have people selling pagers with service paid for by advertisers who send messages to the pager throughout the day. You know, spammers. If they can get dupes to actually buy into that, they'll beat out the telemarketers, no problem.

- Peter Smith

Interactivity, gentlemen. It's all about interactivity.

Telemarketers have to deal with a random sampling of humanity person- to-person (okay, drone-to-person) on a daily basis. Who knows what the person on the other line is going to say? At my house, answers could include:

- "Welcome to Big Louie's Discount Funeral Home. When you get shot, we'll provide the plot."

- "No, he's not here. He died a year ago. But thank you for bringing him up."

- "Welcome to Hell. Mephistopheles speaking."

- (imitating a fax machine) "SHHHHEEEOOOORRRBKKKK!!!!"

Considering that there must be thousands of people even more deranged than me, it's clear that the telemarketers are well-prepared to deal with a bunch of unpredictable freaks. Sounds like spammers to me.

Spammers, on the other hand, mass-produce cheesy pitches and shoot them to millions of people at a time. Even if I took the time to send a snotty reply, just replying to those jerks would likely plague my computer with enough popups to shatter my moniter. Like Jason Fox once said, "Hand-crafted spam is never worth it." So I just sigh and click "Delete", like always. Thus, the net-heads never have to deal with the hostile humans on the other end.

With years of dealing with sarcastic responses and general weirdness, the telemarketers tear through the socially inept spammers in no time. Oh, well. Our spamming friends can console themselves by dipping into some of that "Manhood Enhancer" they've been trying to sell me for $35.

- Oxymoron ("Never buy Viagra from somebody who can't even spell it.")



Here's a transcript of one of my typical run-ins with a telemarketer, taken from my side:

*ring* "Hello? Uh, yeah, that's the number, who's this? Oh, I'm not that interested." *click*
*ring* "Hello? Well, no, I don't have a cell phone... I don't really need one, thanks." *click*
*ring* "Hello? Yes, that does sound like a good deal, but I'm still not interested." *click*
*ring* "Hello?..."

For contrast, here's my last encounter with a spam message:

SEE ANGELINA JOLIE NAK-*delete* *block sender*

Spammers are evil, to be sure, but they are weak and easily avoided. Telemarketers, on the other hand, are the damned, forever calling people they don't want to talk to and selling things no one wants. Oh, pity those poor, condemned souls, my friends. Even as you hang up on them, pity them.

- Tracer

For this match, I am using an excercept from the site "So You've Decided to Be Evil", a leading source on how to become an evil, insidious, sinister and downright mean evildoer.


"Warning: This is without a doubt the most depraved, foul, insidious and malevolent of all possible evil professions. If you choose this job you will be hated by good and evil-doers alike, becoming the lowest of all possible lows, with vigilantes hunting you and entire religions springing up devoted to your destruction. And not without good reason.

You will need: "Special $200 CD with email addresses lifted from USENET! All completely legal! Really!" Also required: Overall worthlessness, wretched stench, complete and utter lameness, heart of darkness, unending depravity, lack of a soul, I.Q. the equivalent of pond scum, and the charm of a three-day-dead rat left festering in the sun that even the maggots won't touch because it's so goddamn ugly and repulsive.

We won't actually go into the details of this job as it's far too disgusting, even for us. Nevertheless, as a spammer you will now honestly be able to say your downfall from humanity is complete, that your eternal damnation is assured and that none exist who can surpass you in vileness.

Now get away from me."

Gotta trust the experts. 'Nuff said.

- Kevin, Lord of Nonsense

Where's the "Both gets mangled and killed by constant visits from Jehovah's Witnesses" button?

- MorrisGuy

All I know is someone's gonna get kicked in their hook-up cord(if ya know what I mean.)

- The Hooligan Of Doom

I'll bet a couple dozen people sent you fake spam responses, but no one called you at dinner time to submit a response. Spam wins.

- Albatross

The Spammers have a secret weapon that Telemarketers don't. Pornography. Spammers are allowed to keep on sending us that junk, while Telemarketers aren't.

As a result, the Spammers start flashing and showing pornography to the Telemarketers, grossing them out and causing them to flee. Victory goes to the Spammers, yet it's not a victory we like.

- Groucho Magmarx

My Mother is a telemarketer. Screw you ALL.

- ticklewigglejigglepickle

The two goups are circling, gathering weapons, planning their attack. They are about to attack when another group steps in front of them.

"Who are you guys?" The groups ask.

"Ohhh, we're just the junk mail people. Can I interest you in a credit card? Are you in debt? Do you want to join the Church of Steve? Do you have debt problems? No? Well can you at least point us toward the mail room."

A Spammer point the door beside them, 1134a, and the junk mailrrs quickly rush in.

The Spammers and Phone errorists are circling again. Sharpening their weapons, and about to charge when another group steps between them.

"Who the hell are you guys?" The Phone Terrorists ask.

"We're the pop-up people. Do you wanna buy a webcam? DO you want to save money on airline tickets? Do you want to place bets legally inside the US? Is there PORNOGRAPHY in your computer? No? Well we'll gonna go check out the buffet downstairs then. See ya."

So the Spammers and Phone TErrorists are circling again, about to charge when ANOTHER group steps in front of them.

"Who are you guys" they ask.

"We're the low-budget local television network commercial people. COME ON DOWN to CRAZY DAN'S Car lot! You can get ALL THESE songs AND MORE on the 'Best Of Kidz Bop' CD! SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY, the MONSTER TRUCK SHOW at Lincoln ford chevy event arena STADIUM! If you need us, we'll be in THE MEDIA ROOM!!!"

"Wait," the Spammers say. "Is there anyone else here that might interrupt us.

"Well, there's the Radio Commercial people, Billboard people, Magazine ad people, promotional flyers people, the people who leave menus on your door, the product placement in movies people, the website banners people, people who put their names in front of college bowl games..."

"Is there anyone who isn't here?" They ask.

"Well, the Hot Chicks and Beer commercial people never showed up."

At which point the building explodes. A Happy Steve looks down from his private Zeppelin.

"See Brian, I told ya it'd work. Where's my 5 bucks?"

- Spooner

Has anyone noticed that in the picture of the telemarketers, the things they supposedly "talk" into are nowhere near their mouths? Also, "telemarketers" sounds suspiciously like "telepathic." Get my drift?

- Aero "Their invading my mind" dude

Spammers are just plain annoying, but telemarketers can be soo funny! The fun you can have when a telemarketer rings up is endless. Example:

(Voice on phone) "Hello this is Shire's Double Glazing and Window Service. Would you be interested in double glazing for your house?"
(You) "Yes, yes! That sounds like a brilliant idea! Could you tell me more?"
(Excited!) "Yes sir! The price is £349. Basically we use the latest in double glazing technology..."
(Interrupting) "No, no, wait a sec, first the basics, what is double glazing?"
"Aha i see, and that keeps the heat inside, making the place warmer?"
"Yes sir it sure does!"
"Good! And how would you fit it to a cardbord box?"
(silence for a while then...)

- Ultima7

Telemarketers? Spammers? No, no no. Ladies, gentlemen and transgendered guests (to steal a line from Data), I present to you a group more insidious, more evil, and more worthy of your fear than either of these two clubs of wannabes. Read no further if you suffer from heart palpitations, are expecting a child, or if you are an impressionable Mormon.

I speak of Help-Line Operators. (TM)

Yes, those formerly normal people whose basic humanity has been warped by exposure to the bureaucracy into which they have been assimilated. They are viler than the IRS. They are more frustrating than the early '90's Buffalo Bills. And they are coming to a phone near you.

'Help'? Hah! The only thing that these foul creatures help is the escalating rate of Satan worship, as one bewildered, defenseless soul after another turns to the dark side in a fruitless search for answers.

You cannot run. You cannot hide. They are out there, waiting... waiting for your call.

- Kapitän der Armeen vom Norden

Spammers are going to take the day easily. I base this opinion one something that happened to me recently: I had to cancel my e-mail address because I was getting upwards of about 70 spam mails per day. Oh sure, you can block e-mail address, but eventually it's just too much! They are overwhelming! I still weep at the thought of those mesage subject.... the horror... the horror! I am lucky to get 3 telemarketers to call a week.

Another reason why telemarketers will walk away with thier tail between their legs is a lack of experience. I mean good-night man! The average telemarketer is employed for about one short month before running away in terror. They've got no experience on their side! And for those that do stay, they self-confidence is forever destroyed by constant rejection. Now spammers, well, those fellas are in for the long haul.

And finally, telemarketers now have to deal with those "No-Call" lists more states are enacting. When "No-Call" numbers are called, the telemarketing company can face a nice fine. This is causing a huge loss in numbers for telemarketers, and they are losing much of their power and potency. What a shame.

- Sam Danger

At first, I was going to vote for the telemarketers. After all, with a job that mind-numbing and soulless, you've gotta figure they've got their share of ticking time bomb, Travis Bickle-style psychopaths just waiting to happen. However, just a few minutes ago, I recieved this e-mail:

From: List Builder

Subj: We're having trouble reaching you

This is a message to let you know that your e-mail is bouncing. This means that our system is having trouble reaching you at this email address. If you receive this message, it appears that the problem was temporary. There is no action that you need to take.

The List Builder Team

Jesus, that's dark. They basically sent an e-mail saying, "Boy, you were a tough one. We almost couldn't put you on 300 unwanted mailing lists. Don't worry, though: We did. Enjoy! :)" There's no getting around these guys. At least the telemarketers aren't smug about it. And as much as I hate them for it, it means the spammers win.

Damn it.

- Vermin Boy

Telemarketers just don't go as well with eggs, bacon, ham and sausage!

- Anonymous

The Telemarketers will win this one. Having been a telemarketer four separate times--oh, shut up, like YOU don't have a skeleton or two in your closet!!--I know whereof I speak.

Y'see, a spammer just sends stuff out. If you delete his stuff, he doesn't notice. If you send him an e-response dripping with venom and vitriol, he doesn't care. Spammers live some pretty low-stress lives.

Compare this to a telemarketer. Most of their paycheck is usually commission. Their supervisors are usually a bunch of type-A, anal- retentive, high-pressure types who are constantly climbing all over them. Their only other human contact throughout the workday consists of people hanging up on them or cussing them up one side and down the other. What does all this stress induce when a bunch of pale, flabby geeks are standing between them and the phones they need to make those commissions...?

You got it--The Rage.(tm) The spammers are going to be street pizza within ninety seconds, guaranteed.

- John the Bastard (I shall never telemarket again!!)

I'd go with the spammers if they could do as they promise and make my penis bigger NATURALLY!, because then they'd have magic powers (in that I'm a girl). But this is clearly not the case.

I worked as a telemarketer for exactly one day and I can tell you one thing: A LOT, if not most, of the guys I worked with were ex-cons. I think I was the only person there without a tattoo on my neck. Plus, I've read some states contract out to companies, so the telemarketer on the line may be a CURRENT convict.

So while the spammers are lumbering toward them, bits of Doritos stuck in the fold on their super-faded black t-shirts, the telemarketers get out their shivs, removing the spammers from their list...permanently.

- An amazing new awful

The Borg analogy was good. Too bad you used it on the wrong side.

There are lots of ways to get rid of (or at least some good revenge on) telemarketers:

  • No-call lists
  • Tele-Zappers
  • Attempt to convert them to the Raelian religion
  • Heavy breathing
  • "I'm sorry, you need to talk to the man of the house, one moment, please..... Yo Osama, another telemarketer wants to talk to you...."

However, in true Borg fashion, those stupid spammers can get around any filter you invent. Every email msg has a different set of funky, random characters in the Subject line. They assimilate your Address Book and go after your friends and family. And like female black widow spiders and certain types of snakes, they seem particularly fond of hunting similar Borg drones, such as Micro$oft Outlook and Hotmail. Slowly but surely (and I swear this is no lie, this is real life), I'd have to say 80-85% of all email I get on my account now is spam. You can trash your email account; they'll find you. You can hose your hard drive; they'll be waiting on the other side. You can try to legislate them away; they'll just come back from another country. You can punch that Delete button 'til your fingers bleed from a scorching case of carpal tunnel syndrome, and they keep coming back. Just like "Q" said of the Borg on ST:TNG -- they are relentless.

I'll probably never be able to prove it, but I also suspect they all have corporate sponsors -- the antivirus and anti-spam software vendors. They hire these dateless, high-school-dropout pimple-farms to invent these scourges of cyberspace so that people have no choice but to buy their products and update subscriptions.

The truth is out there... hidden away in some spam message's Subject line.

- The Genius Formerly (and Still) Known as Eddie

I must say, I was stunned when the page originally loaded. A three week wait, and this is what I was greeted with? Never before has a related match link been so relevant as this match is to Cockroaches v. Rats, unless there’s a Scumbags v. Dickheads match I’m unaware of. How I could do anything but send off a stock standard “Decrying the Lack of an All Killed and Mutilated Button Response” was beyond me, but then it struck me:

Telemarketers have ALREADY been ‘All Killed and Mutilated’, in the fabulous book Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. Specifically, a room full of Telemarketers, butchered in the most gruesome, grisly fashion: eaten alive by an Arch-Duke of Hell in the form of thousands of worms. If I remember anything from that brilliant book, it was that totally gratuitous but utterly fantastic two-page subplot.

So now I must vote for the worm-chow, in order to let those scummy Spammers receive a similarly horrible fate: a loss on Grudge Match. You guys really did have our best interests at heart, and I swear on the relevant holy texts never to question you again.

- Mixmaster Flibble

This match is a lot like the Iran-Iraq War in that we wish that both sides could destroy each other completely. But, since that is a not one of the options, one of these teams has to win. Here is how it will be decided.

What will determine the outcome of this match is the opinion of the evil entity who is the overlord of both the telemarketers, spammers, as well as their brethren, the junkmailers. The master of them of all? None other than the infernal Direct Marketing Association (DMA). I actually know some people who are members of that group and if they are any indication, they are pure evil. The DMA is so powerful that they are able to derail or water down any piece of anti- spam, anti-telemarketer, or anti-junk mail legislation the government can propose.

How the DMA might decide this is to consider who it would be most politically expedient to have lose this match. Since telemarketers hawk products such as newspapers, food services, home repair, and other mundane legitimate things, while spammers concentrate on such shady things as get-rich quick schemes, diets, and other unsavory ventures of questionable efficacy and/or legality, the DMA would most likely side with the telemarketers as being less objectionable and proceed to cast the spammers back where they came from in some sort of suitably demonic fashion.

Now if we can only find a way to eliminate the surviving team, as well as the DMA...

- The Demented Astronomer

Where is the "Both Mangled and Killed" option? I'll kneecap myself with a rusty axe before I give my vote to either one of those...

- NiTessine

All right, who forgot to code up the "All Mangled and Killed" button?

Heaven help both the telemarketers and the spammers once they find out that room 1134b is already occupied, by a far more menacing threat - the head office of The Watchtower.

Yes, you can hang up on telemarketers and you can delete spam, but it's not so easy to get rid of... the Jehovah's Witnesses!

Unfortunately with the rest of us, once they've eliminated both the telemarketers and spammers, the JW crew will probably "inherit" all the autodialers and e-mail lists. If that doesn't inspire someone to write another anti-technology manifesto, nothing will.

- James Rioux, CTM

OK, raise your hand if you have ever worked in out-bound sales. If your hand is not raised, you are a liar. Virtually every pimply faced high school student was at one time swayed by the radio ad offering $8-10 PER HOUR!!!

Now that you have admitted to your dark past you can redeem yourself by telling us how long you stayed at that job. 1, maybe 2 days? EXACTLY!!.

In other words, the telemarketers will see the spammers coming down the halway, look out the window at the 'Help Wanted' sign in the Taco Bell window, and the Spammers get the bandwidth.

Spammers on the other hand earn millions making people aware of weight loss pills and *Manhood* enlargement methods. Their ill- gotten empires are based on this invasion of email privacy and they won't give it up easily.

- Hermit Boy

Normally, I would be whining and complaining about the lack of presense of a certain "All Mangled and Killed" button.

But seeing that I, myself, worked for THREE DIFFERENT telemarketing companies, I would then have to join in the carnage by mangling and killing myself. Fortunately, I have not had the misfortune of working for any "Direct Electronic Marketing" companies.

Thus to save my own skin, I have to vote for the Telemarketers.

- Tahna Los, whose blood is thicker than water.....

This is how I see it: both mobs meet at the doorway with a mighty crash. Death is all that meets the ringleaders at the front as they are quickly trodden underfoot. After several minutes of destruction it is evident that the two groups are at a stalemate. Neither telemarketers nor spammers have the stamina to stay fighting long. just as both groups have just about decided to give up and leave for lunch, a chill descends over the crowd and a cold voice says "before you leave, I would like to have a talk with you". A short woman is standing on the outskirts of the former battleground, glaring with hatred at the telemarketers. That's right, it's my Mom! This lady hates telemarketers with a RAGE (tm) that knows no bounds. An hour later, as the dust settles, a bewildered horde of spammers stare in horror at the woman who stands alone amidst the sea of bodies strewn across the floor. She gives the survivors a tight smile and walks away with a slight spring to her step.

My Mom couldn't use the computer if her life depended on it, because of this she has no idea what Spam is. However, if she heard of a convention for telemarketers she would take the time out of her schedule to fly down from Canada and open up a can of whoop@$$. The only reason I voted for the spammers is because they would be the only people left standing (they would later, of course, be arrested for battery and/or possible homicide as my mom goes free)

- Bri

Normally, I'd just point out how telemarketers are more experienced than the spammers (they've been at it since at least the Eighties, I have personally seen them work since then). Or perhaps how, since telemarketers must fake enthusiasm and motivation all day on the phone, they have more pent up Rage (tm) than their computer counterpart.

But this one's coming down to intelligence.

Mark, you think TELEMARKETERS butcher English? Heres the average telemarketer call:

Hello, Mr. Smith, I'm calling on behalf of Faceless Corporation, Inc., to offer to sell you this unique, one-of-a-kind useless piece of crap.

And now, spam e-mail titles

jflshey baaby
Sexxxxy pix of teen grrls!!!
Wanna reduse yur debit?

Sometimes, you even get a string of numbers before the title, like "28749329er I had fun lsat nite on my 18eeth b-day." Exactly WHAT is the message there? Why?

Telemarketers will defeat the spammers just by selling them these "wonderful, necessary personal dictionaries" that will let them FINALLY spell words correctly. Meanwhile, I'll get 20 calls about a free credit card with NO hidden fees!*

*Excluding all hidden charges.

- 8230Devin the EXCELLENT Mental Hospital Escapee, only $19.95!

You're on your coach, watching football, when suddenly some annoying yahoo on the phone offers to lower your interest rates. Big deal, who cares. On the other hand, you're at your computer looking at victoria secret models when, faster than you can say "you've got porn!" you get an email to look horny women with leather g-strings. Now thats the kind of interruption I enjoy! Props to my peeps representin with the mizouse.

- NoLimitJay

At a Large Convention Center somewhere in the United States:

A group of Telemarkers and Spammers fight in an enraged battle in te hall near Communications Room 1134b. It is a slow battle, as the 'Marketers are disinterested and try to 'talk' their way to victory, while the spammers try to win using their bulk brute force.

At some point, the door to said room opens....

Out pops the head of a grissled Linux enthusiast. That's right, the Comm Room has been triple-booked, and SOMEBODY got there before THEM!
(See: the pile of dead NT users in the freight elevator).

Seeing an open door, the Telemarkers and Spammers all try to rush at once....

Into the waiting trap of fifty trained killer emporor penquins.

It's not a pretty sight.

- Zero, the Brain In The Jar

Choosing to vote for the telemarketers was pretty easy. If I voted for the spammers, I would have been voting for people who want me to know they believe the following things about me:

1. I'm stupid enough to believe that I can make $5,000 a week while working 10 hours a week.
2. I would like to buy pornography involving farm animals.
3. I have an extremely small penis.

Somehow, calling me during dinner just pales in comparison.

- Mr. Silverback- Predicts that 80% of the responses will contain the phrase "All Mangled And Killed."

And WE predict that 80% of the responses will be deleted. Coincidence? --Editor

As far as i see it, the spammers and the telemarketers have no desire to beat the shit out of each other, they'd just spend their time trying to persuade the other group to let them have the room. Now, this would be all fine and dandy until they decided to SHARE.

Yes, share.
That shouldn't be so bad? should it?

yes, it should, for it means that the Spammers and Telemarketers would join forces, and create a new generation of SuperSpam (TM). Imagine spam that emails you back after you delete it, asking you why you did so? Or Telemarketers that pretend to be a friend of your's, and then make their offer when you're in a false sense of security?

if you need a new change of pants, you are not alone. But who, who would bring this upon us? who in their right minds would combine these two scourges of humanity?

Think for a second... The two men who spoke at the convention were "Mr. Wallace" and Mr. "Williams". Using a little of my crazy teenage imagination, that easily becomes "William Wallace". Yes, that's right- IT'S THE JIHAD (there is no jihad (TM)). Only the William Wallace Jihad (there is no jihad (TM)) would dare to do this to humanity. We must stand up against this inhumane group!

- Ryan (there is no Jihad (TM))

At least the Spammers don't mispronounce my name.

- The Masked Cow

Chances are this will end like all fights... Physical Confontation!
If you would like to take a punch at me, press 1, If you'd like to kick me, press 2, If you happened to carry a pocket-knife press 3.
....................................If you want to punch on the left, press one, if you'd like to punch me on the right, press 2, If you want to give me a haymaker, press 3
.............................................................. If you want to dodge me, press one, press 2 if you'd like to be hit......

This would go until the Spammers go insane, Or they die of old age after a few decades....

- Loser- President of the Spammer Petting zoo

Too bad the Both Mangled and Killed (tm) Option is not available. Wouldn't mind smelling the charred remains (we're talking about electrocution, of course). Maybe God could arrange an electrical storm and as soon as both groups got "jacked" up, they could get "jacked" off from 20,000 volts or so. Or maybe someone from the utilities department could rig up an explosion that would happen if anyone plugged into those phone jacks. Or what if there was a mad scientist convention happening at the same place, and one of them had a pet T-rex, and the T-rex went nuts and ate everyone? I'd be impressed. Or how about like in one of those Die Hard movies, a bomb went off and all the bodies were strewn about the place like the Gay Shoppers of America at a shoe store? Maybe a rogue stampede of cattle is running through there, and no one thought about moving out of the way. What about if the military discovers that the groups have accessed a secret government document exposing a dark secret and the President himself orders their termination through a covert operation. Maybe they all ate too much Jello, and each of them watched their stomachs rupture and other internal organs become the equivalent of a New York Giants kicking team. And what about this: what if it was an elaborate plot by some insect-eating, mold- encrusted third world country madman (like Tony Blair, perhaps) to anonomously strike at the labor force of the United States.

Or maybe, just perhaps, one of the groups' members realized their job was so meaningless and sad, figured that he could do the world a favor by eliminating both groups and making Earth a better, quieter and less annoying planet by killing all of the participants...

- The Genie

Based on my experience, this so-called "match" is really no match at all. It's a lopsided slaughter.

In my job as a social worker, I meet a lot of homeless people. Many of them have been in prison, and have been convicted of violent crimes. A surprisingly large number of my clients get jobs as telemarketers. I kid you not.

On the other hand, spammers are just a greedy, lazy, not-too-intelligent brand of computer geeks. When was the last time you saw a computer geek whip the ass of an ex-con?

The 15-20% of the telemarketers who have done hard time will mercilessly "shiv" a few dozen spammers, before the remaining spammers run screaming from the room. The telemarketers will then commence doing something far more unpleasant: bothering you at home during dinner.

- Jeff

The only thing I'm looking to buy right now is an "All Mangled and Killed" button.

- Kilgore Trout

Who gets to the door of room 1134b first depends on who gets shoved out of the way when the two groups collide. This can be resolved with simple Newtonian physics; we can assume they are moving at the same speed, so whichever group has more mass will shove their opponents out of the way.

As Steve pointed out, the spammers are obese, which means 1 spammer has more mass than 1 telemarketer. However, he also pointed out that there are fewer spammers, so these factors balance out, leaving both groups with the same mass.

What happens next? The two groups collide and grind to a halt just in front of the door. The issue must now be resolved in true Grudgie fashion; hand-to-hand combat. Now, which would you rather be beaned with, a dinky little cell phone or one of those slightly thicker, much heavier laptops?

End result: the telemarketers stagger away,Macintosh logos (Of COURSE the spammers are Mac users!) imprinted in their foreheads. The remaining spammers loot the mailing lists from their fallen allies and proceed to send me more ads for the Automatic Melon Slicer (Only $49.99 plus shipping, handling, and your credit card number!)

- Fish of Death

ARE YOU KIDDING??? This one goes to the telemarketers. Those crazy buggers have the mental toughness to stick this one out to the very bloody end. These people are so motivated as to cause wonderment amoung professional shrinks! (My abnormal psych prof can't stand em!) These guys take mounds and mounds of verbal abuse on a minute by minute basis. When I get a call from one of these hell spawned fiends, I try to make it my mission to make them hang up on me. Know how many times that's actually worked? Three times out of hundreds. I've tried everything on these yahoos, psychological warfare just doesn't work! They're nigh invunerable!

As for spammers? Heh, they don't even warrant real effort. A few simple keystrokes and I haven't gotten spam in any real amount for months. My vote goes to anybody who can spend twenty minutes explaining how even if I live in a dorm, I still can order new siding and windows.

- ring ring AHHHHHHHHH!

I voted for the Spammers only because, well, I'm head of the Spamish Inquisition. And we all know that the Spamish Inquisition has, amongst it's weaponry, fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Spam Pope and a night out with the neighbor, blah blah blah blah blah

So, with that kinda help. Even though the Spammers are few in number, the Telemarketers will have to deal, not only with the basic tortures of the soft cushions and cumfy chair, we even have... Japanese ABBA RECORDS and KIDDIE POOLS OF MINNOWS! RUN IN FEAR TELEMARKETERS AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!! I will help my Spammish brothers in arms!!!

Spamish Inquisition

- Cardinal DWoods

Every once in a while, a spammer is actually mentioned by name in an article, which invariably features their incessant whining that spam is a legitimate business right after mentioning the spammer's cloven hooves, forked tongue, and foul stench. So spammers are whiny crybabies on top of being lazy, stupid, and annoying.

True, the same applies to telemarketers. The difference is that the telemarketers have the huge advantage of including a certain organization, which every American male hears from shortly after turning 18: the US military. I mean, if a recruiting officer has a list of names to call and a sales pitch to convince somebody to join their services, does that not make him a telemarketer?

Sure, the telemarketers will suffer great losses due to carelessness on the part of the recruiting officers (friendly fire seems to be the trademark of the modern military), but the spammers will quite simply get their whiny asses handed to them. A oily, whiny guy in a bad suit who can send a billion email messages with the push of a button is still just a oily, whiny guy in a bad suit, but a Marine with a headset is still a Marine.

- Ubiq

1. Large Convention Centers are well-lit, and for good reason: they're so large, they're like caverns, with their interiors having little light from the outside world.

2. Spammers are on a familiar basis with computers.

How do we tie these two facts together to create a relevant point? Easy. The spammer head-honchoes can hack into the convention center mainframe and switch off every single light, shrouding the corridors with blackness.

The bewildered telemarketers, with work environments as glaringly bright as 1984's Ministry of Love ("the place where there is no darkness"), will be unable to see their headsets in front of their faces. In contrast, having spent way too many nights hunching at work with only computer screens for illumination, spammers' strained eyes have adapted for these conditions. They may need bifocals to read when they hit 40, but this is their element. Further, as "Dungeons & Dragons" veterans can attest, blind-fighting neutralizes numbers. The unseeing telemarketers will smite each other or fall and be trampled in their confusion, before stumbling away towards the safety of a windowed room. The nocturnal spammers won't be able to pursue their route, but they won't have to, with the phone- jacked room in possession.

- Matt Bricker

Wait a second... you mean there's a difference between the two?!

- Thought Police

With a little luck, both groups will be too busy fighting each other to notice that Room 1134b is both soundproof and windowless. The phone jacks are all dummies, the doors have been locked, and my, there seem to be a lot of conspicuous vents in the walls...

- Ruffian #3


Who, exactly, would be evil enough to rent the building to these groups?

- Rainwoman

If you liked this match, check out these other past matches:

Cockroaches v. Rats
AOL v. Al Gore
Battle of The Seven Deadly Sins

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Next Match: And like that... he's gone... or is he?
ETA: Monday, January 20th, 2002

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