World Wide Web Fights Presents
Happy Halloween! What is Grudge Match? Happy Halloween!
What is Grudge Match?

The Scenario

It's just past midnight in an upstate New York town. In the loft of a windmill, a witchy woman begins to work her magic. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, and it is to hell that she turns:

"Rise up once more, my Dark Avenger!
Rise up, my unholy Horseman!
Come forth again through the Tree of the Dead...
Come now for... Jonathan Van Connor!"

Deep in the Western Woods, a hideous tree comes to life, twisting and groaning. From it leaps a dark, headless shape on a horse. It gallops towards the town.

On the other side of town, a strange blue lightning is seen behind a farm house, sending the chickens and pigs into a nervous frenzy. The farmer lights a lamp and comes down to the back door to investigate. All he finds is some burnt grass and that some garments are missing from his clothes line.

Elsewhere, Jonathan Van Connor returns home after a rendezvous with his new love, the good Lady Van Morrison. As he tends to his fire, the front door bursts open, and there stands the Headless Horseman, axe drawn.

Almost simultaneously, a portion of the back wall collapses, and through the hole enters the T-800 Terminator. He studies the figure by the fire. His digital read-out shows: Jonathan Van Connor / Great great great great great great grandfather of John Connor, savior of the human race / Must protect He turns to the Horseman. Threat to Van Connor / Must terminate

The Horseman swings his axe at Van Connor, but the Terminator grabs a poker from the fire and blocks him. And the battle begins.

So, Brian, which Henchman hacks the Holy Hell™ out of his hostile hindrance?

Headless Horseman, Sleepy Hollow T-800 Terminator, Terminator 2: Judgment Day

Headless Horseman vs. T-800 Terminator

The Commentary

BRIAN: The Headless Horseman in a rout, Brendan. He is from Hell. Technology is nice and all, but it can't compare to the powers of The Prince of Darkness. Titanium alloys are no match for Hell-Forged Hessian Steel™.

The Terminator just doesn't have the weapons to take the Headless Horseman on. Unless you are empowered by an all-powerful benevolent deity, a la The Exorcist, you cannot take on the forces of Hell head on, fiddle competitions in Georgia being the exception that proves the rule. You must use trickery, purity, loopholes, or irony. While Arnold managed trickery in End of Days, only to end up dead, the Terminator is capable of none of these. He'll rush things head on and lose miserably, especially since the best weapons he can find will be muskets. In Sleepy Hollow, the Horseman was never defeated, but rather appeased following a lengthy investigation... something else the Terminator isn't capable of. The only shot he'd have would be to once again fight fire with fire, and to get the Horseman to fall into a vat of something molten. Unfortunately, Linda Hamilton isn't there to help, and the biggest, hottest thing around is a relatively small furnace down at the good Richard Van Dyke's Silversmith Shoppe. He's got no chance.

Finally, what is the T-800 Terminator's greatest asset? His metal skeleton? His computer brain? No. It's his coolness. Leather Jacket, sunglasses, motorcycle. They don't have those in 1799. He won't even have Eddie Furlong around to teach him cool catch phrases like "Hasta La Vista, Baby". Maybe he can latch on to some other kid and pick up some of the lingo, but it won't be the same. From the scenario, it's clear that Arnold will be busting through that wall wearing overalls and one of those triangle hats, saying something like: "It is required of us that we give all diligence unto the increase of grace, and that we abound therein." Geez, his coolness and confidence would be so shot, he'd probably be willing to sign on for Jingle All The Way 2: Death to Elmo right there. Fortunately for him (and us), the Horseman chops him to bits first.

BRENDAN: Well old timer, I was going to go easy on you out of respect for your advanced years but then you had to go and invoke the most hated of all clichés, "the exception that proves the rule." What the bloody blue blazes does that even mean? It doesn't make any sense. Wouldn't the exception serve to disprove the rule? Anyway...

How can it possibly be an asset to be from Hell? When have the forces of Hell ever won at anything? Beyond the aforementioned fiddle contest, they have also been properly smitten at the poker table, the courtroom, and on the blood stained plains of Colorado (where technology managed to do quite a number on them.) And now just because you have annoyed me through the use of that damnable cliché, I will provide mathematical proof why the Terminator has to win.
Given)-Satan is the most powerful of all the denizens of Hell
Step 1)-The Archangel Michael can whup Satan (taken from the Bible)
Step 2)-Xena can beat Michael (taken from several episodes of Xena)
Step 3)-Conan can thrash Xena (taken from Grudge Match's own history)
Thus through the transitive property of asskicking, we can conclude Conan can beat any of the denizens of Hell. And what is Conan but a medieval version of the Terminator? If Conan can beat the Horseman without even having the advantages of cybernetic strength, reflexes, and armor, than the Terminator will make a gelding out of him.

As for weapons, given the less restrictive gun laws of the period, the T-800 is actually better off in 1799 New York then in the present day California. Who needs a shotgun when you can have a grapeshot loaded cannon? Who needs a molten vat when Benjamin Franklin's experiments can be so easily modified to electrocute one's enemies? And what's to stop the Terminator from just ripping off the Horseman's arms and legs?

As for coolness, come now, leather jackets haven't been cool since the day I bought one. All the Terminator needs is a powdered wig and a John Paul Jones hat and he'll be good to go. The special effects of horseboy being driven through his own horse will take care of the rest.

BRIAN: Brendan, you should write a book called Making Other People's Points for Them. It would be an instant best seller, 2nd only to Grudge Match, Da Book™. To wit:

  • Thank you for pointing out that I am the elder, and therefore wiser, commentator here. Weren't you still in high school when I started doing Grudge Matches? Maybe a freshman Aggie? Which is worse?
  • As if he didn't look lame enough in the overalls and silly hat, now you've gone and put the terminator in a powdered wig. Why not give him clown shoes and some costume jewelry while you're at it? The best chance this guy has would be to have his opponent laugh himself to death, but since the horseman is already dead and doesn't even have a face, termie's got no shot.
  • Transitive property of asskicking? Talk about the last refuge of the desperate. Using that same "property", I could prove that the Arizona Cardinals are better than the Denver Broncos (Arizona beat Philly, who beat Seattle, who beat Denver), even though Denver beat the Cards by 3 TDs.
  • You admit to watching Xena. Ergo, Brendan = fanboy. 'Nuff said™.
This is all about match-ups, and just as Arizona's secondary didn't match up well with Denver's receivers, the T-800 doesn't match up well with the Headless Horseman. He just doesn't have the proper tools. I've never claimed the denizens from Hell are invincible. In fact, every denizen has it's weakness: Satan has God, Jack The Ripper has Johnny Depp, Bill Gates has the Justice Department. The Horseman's weakness is his desire to be whole again, but the Terminator isn't smart or careful enough to figure out that's how to stop him.

One final note: the Headless Horseman is a Black Knight™. Hacking off a limb won't stop him. In fact, being from Hell and impervious to such things as decomposition, any severed non-head limbs will likely reattach themselves and come back for more, or maybe just start fighting on their own.

BRENDAN: I'm afraid your fading memory is playing tricks on you again, Brian. It was Strom Thurmond who was still in high school back when you started up the Grudge Match. And as for the Xena thing, hey I don't get Cinemax, so Xena was my only source for lesbian action. Now what's your excuse for being a Python fanboy?

And maybe they don't bother teaching history down at Auburn anymore (guess they need the extra time to practice losing to Alabama), so I'm going to remind you who else wore a powdered wig. Yes, that's right, the coolest man of his age, a man named George Washington. If powdered wigs were good enough for George then they are good enough for everyone. You do have a point about the overalls, but Arnold has survived far worse humiliations (i.e. Jingle All the Way), he'll survive this one as well. Besides it will make the triumph all the sweeter when he gets to wrap the Horsemen's disembodied legs up in the overalls and then bury them in ye olde outhouse.

A quick look at the Horsemen's record should make the results even more obvious. In life he got whacked by a bunch of no name Continental Army grunts. Then in death, even while reanimated with the powers of hell, he couldn't even take out some 18th century Scully with Oedipal issues and a fainting complex. He did a passable job at killing some of the local yokels but against the Terminator he is fighting way out of his weight (which is well in keeping with the Germanic tradition of blundering into fights against much stronger opponents.) And it's laughable to suggest he could regrow any arms or legs that receive a terminectomy. If the boy could regrow body parts, he could regrow his head and wouldn't have to go around slaving for every hag that waves a skull in his direction. Ergo ripping off his arms and legs will work just fine for neutralizing him if the grapeshot and lightning don't get the job done.

After the T-800 is through with him, the Horseman won't be back.

NOTE #1: This is the Headless Horseman from the recent Tim Burton film Sleepy Hollow.
NOTE #2: Since Terminators time travel naked, he won't have modern things like shotguns or motorcycles.

Thanks to Adam Leonard for suggesting this debate.

The Results

T-800 Terminator, Terminator 2: Judgment Day

The T-800 Terminator (2879 - 64.1%)

hacks up

Headless Horseman, Sleepy Hollow

The Headless Horseman (1609 - 35.9%)

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Voter Comments


The Headless Horseman swept into Connor's house, his ragged cape billowing out around him. The Terminator remained where he was. The Horseman took a tentative whack at him, but the Terminator did not respond. Four hours later, the Terminator was reduced to his metal form, and the Horseman lay on the floor, his chest heaving with exhaustion. The Terminator, who has only infra-red vision, could not even see the long-dead horseman. However, the Horseman's axe was not able to break the futuristic alloy that formed the Terminator's skeleton. The two remained in stalemate, unable to take action against each other. John Connor screamed at the Terminator, "Just kill it! Its right in front of you, you retard!!" The Terminator, drawing upon his advanced, computerized brain replied, "Hasta la vista, baby." Connor turned red with rage and frustration as he bellowed, "Just kill the thing and don't say any more of those stupid phrases!!" "No problemo."

By now, the Horseman had wedged his axe handle between the Terminator's gears, and was jumping up and down on the handle. Satan, who had been watching the proceedings, was fed up. She decided to take matters into her own hands, and materialized in the Connor household. The brilliant heat flare she threw when she arrived overloaded the Terminator's circuits, and he dropped to the floor. The Horseman retrieved his axe from the cyborg's twisted, melted body, and faced his master. Dropping to one knee, he said: "I apologize for my failure!" Satan turned her bespectacled gaze upon him, and shrieked: "It looks like SOMEONE is a couple of nuggets short of a Happy Meal! You ARE the Weakest Link! Goodbye!" With a puff of smoke, the Horseman is whisked off to whence he came. And in an awful anticlimax, Satan incinerated the Connors, and hundreds of years later machines ruled the Earth. The winner: Satan (with some help from the Headless Horseman)

- sPEciaL eD

ROTW Silver Medal GrudgieTM

For The Headless Horseman vs. The Terminator match, we see the Terminator exposed to his two greatest weaknesses demonstrated in Judgment Day: his disadvantage in kicking ass as a Terminator protecting humans, and his vulnerability to the most advanced modes of transportation in whatever time he travels to. Once the Horseman chooses the optimal moment to strike, the only mode of transportation available to Van Connor and the Terminator will, inconveniently, be a donkey.

"He's coming this way!"
"Get on the donkey if you vant to live."

Lots of clanking-James-Cameron-movie-music as the Horseman hacks away at Van Connor and Terminator on donkey-back, like, forever. Even if the Terminator manages to stave off Van Connor's execution, and even somehow preserve the life of the donkey indefinitely, Van Connor will certainly have no opportunity to procreate, riding a donkey and being spooned by Arnold Schwarzenegger for the rest of his natural life. Match goes to Skynet.

- Mike Leung

ROTW Bronze Medal GrudgieTM

As much as I hate to rely on a cliche, I think this match can boil down to the magnitude of the RAGE(TM) present in each competitor, via the actors' other roles. Christopher "Headless Horseman" Walken's character in Pulp Fiction had to spend seven years in a Vietcong POW camp, living in constant fear and discomfort, watching his friends die one by one. On top of that, two of those years were spent with a rather large gold watch hidden in his butt. Arnold "Terminator" Schwarzenegger, on the other hand, was in a movie with Sinbad. No two ways about it: Terminator, hands down.

- Vermin Boy

I too have always been irritated by the phrase "the exception that proves the rule," so I took it upon myself to find out who the fuck invented it so that I could send a headless horse-riding killer robot back in time and put him down. I am still stymied in this regard. However, I did find that it *is* a useful phrase WHEN USED PROPERLY, which it usually isn't. For example, if there were a street sign which read "no parking between 6 and 9 pm," that could be taken as evidence that parking was acceptible during the hours the sign had not excluded. Hence, the exception that proves the rule.

In a bizarre attempt to extend this principle to the current grudge match, I have decided to evaluate our compeditors solely by what they are listed as missing. The Terminator is missing his gun, his clothes, his motorcycle, and his coolness. The Horseman is missing his head. Overwhelmingly, the Terminator's exceptions win this match, as guns will always triumph over disembodied heads. Just look at the French Revolution. And the coolness will insure it happens in style. Unfortunately for Arnold, this means the Horseman wins the actual grudge match in a stunning Catch-22. The exceptions, you see, prove the rule of the Horseman.

- Guildenstern

Coolness? Leather jackets and powdered wigs? WAKE UP! If you have to go with coolness, you're looking at it from the wrong area. The Terminator is cool, simple as that. Always has been, always will be. Why? Look at what it takes to stop one. You have to pretty much blow them up with a gas tanker just to take their skin off! Then you have to find someone willing to die trying to slide a pipe bomb into their midsection, and THEN you have to crush what remains with a hydraulic press! Something that tough is instantly cool, and at any rate, barring that brief bit at the end of T2, Terminators don't feel or care. It doesn't care if it's cool or not, making it instantly that much cooler. What does the headless horseman have going for it? No head, OOOOH! I'm just so scared... Terminator... HMM! NO FEAR! Is the Headless Horseman super strong? Don't believe so. Any gas tankers or pipe bombs or hydraulic presses handy? Nope again. Without that head he can't even bite at the Terminator. Ichabod knows nothing of cyborgs, he sees a guy. He'll attack like he would any other guy, might even land one chop with his weapon. That puts him in close range, and wouldn't you know it, the Terminator is real good at grabbing his opponents. Now, he's just headless, no horse, and he's being held by something that he can't hurt.

Now, Terminators have those cool little battery packs, that last for over 100 years. With 100 years there must be plenty that could be done to destroy Mr. Crane. Not that even a day is required, since most likely he would be destroyed with the rays of the sun at daylight (most things conjured at night tend to disagree with morning), or Terminator could wait for a holy day for him to be vanquished, or, if it must be that for Terminator to kill something it has to be thrown into a pool of hot liquid, he could WALK to a volcano! You've got a few in Central and South America, and Terminator would know when they would form and erupt and where, though I like the thought of him walking under the ocean to appear on the islands of Hawaii, dragging the body of Headless, bloated and with pruney skin from all that water, all covered in seaweed and having a few crabs clinging to him with their pincers. A fitting humiliation and ending for a pitiful combatant against a Terminator.

- Pareeha

Logic would dictate that the T-1000, with his weaponry and whatnot would win.

Phooey and a pox on logic, says I.

This is a Halloween match, so the victory goes not to the one with the biggest guns, but the one with the biggest Creepy Factor [pat. pending.]

Remember, the Headless Horseman is played by Christopher Walken. The high king of full-on creepy. Did you ever see that music video where he dances? The weirdness factor from that video alone could blow the Terminator away. Even when Walken is funny [which he can be- see his SNL appearances] he still has a creepy factor to him.

So anyway, even though HH will likely lose in the polls, let me raise a glass to the mighty powers of full-on CREEEPY!

- JPM-who notes the coolness from Tim Burton also gives HH a leg up.

Watch as the Headless Horseman swings his axe towards the Terminator... *BLAM* *BLAM* *BLAM* Axes and all may have worked well enough back in those days, but I'm afraid it isn't going to work against technology. Welcome to the 21st century, baby...

- Boba Foot

There are two ways of looking at this match. One way is to assume it is based on the original Washington Irving story and the other is to assume it is based on the Johnny Depp film "Sleepy Hollow" I, myself, favor the Washington Irving perspective out of respect for the fact that Irving originally came up with the Sleepy Hollow concept. In the original story, hints were dropped that the Headless Horseman was none other than the local bully who donned a disguise and threw a head-shaped pumpkin to scare away Ichabod Crane, a local schoolmaster. Therefore, viewed in this light, the Headless Horseman was merely some big guy. So the Terminator can defeat him in mere nanoseconds. If you wish to accept the Johnny Depp movie perspective, the Terminator will still emerge victorious. It must be remembered that the T-series robots were able to conquer the world and discover time travel, both impressive achievements and things beings like the supernatural Headless Horseman could never accomplish. While the commentators invoke the Headless Horseman's supernatural powers, what good are these when fighting a foe whose technology can warp the space-time continuum itself enough to allow time travel? If the Headless Horseman defeats the Terminator, a Terminator can be sent back further in time and destroy the witch before she can cast the spell that summoned the Headless Horseman. Also, in the final analysis, Arnold is much cooler than anything Washington Irving could come up with.

- The Demented Astronomer

I had to go with the T-800 because of the commentators.. I was torn between them just analyzing it myself. T-800 wouldn't stand a chance in close combat with a master at the dual wielding of axe and sword.. But the Horseman wouldn't stand a chance at long range, a grenade in his gut wouldn't go down well with him I don't think.. so lets just exclude supernatural powers.. T-800 could just travel back in time and take out Christopher Walken and the little witch chick and end the game there and then.. and Horseman is from hell so he would be kinda difficult to kill in this state.. so we'll just void the powers.. This is pure melee combat... So I'm torn, it could go either way for me.. so, reading the commentators' battle, I had to go with the great one who gave this quote: "And maybe they don't bother teaching history down at Auburn anymore (guess they need the extra time to practice losing to Alabama)" HELL YES ROLL TIDE ROLL.. Born and raised 15 miles from Bryant-Denny Stadium, I LOVE Alabama Football.. Kudos to him.. I'll just forget the Python remark... John Cleese is one of my favorites, as with Holy Grail..

- Robdardy

The Headless Horseman is dead, and therefore can't die. He has been shot, stabbed and set on fire, and he kept coming. The T-800 Terminator has been killed twice, first by a pneumatic- press, then by molten metal. You do the maths.

- The Man in the know

There's one simple reason why the Terminator has to win this one. The Headless Horseman has broken one of the cardinal rules of being a celebrity. He's working with an animal (no, not Awesome Arnie(TM)). As anybody who has watched the episode of Blue Peter with the baby elephant knows, all animals are 100% certain of defecating, rearing up, or deciding they want to be somewhere else at precisely the wrong time. Just as the Headless Horseman gains the pper hand and attempts to finish the Terminator off, his horse will see an attractive filly in the field next door, and gallop off in an attempt impregnate her with his daemon-seed (TM). The Headless Horseman will be stuck in the saddle, frantically trying to turn round, swearing continuously, whilst the Terminator regroups, runs up behind the Horseman and batters him repeatedly over the stump until he dies. Terminator by Knock-Out in the fifth round. Horse gains eternal notoriety as a clip on 'You've been Framed' and 'Worlds Funniest Animals'.

- Ragnorak

Has the world gone mad? If the T-800 can survive a barrage of bullets from the modern worlds most destructive guns, how the hell can a headless jockey hope to lop his head off with a measly axe. I think if the headless horse men does eventually find his head, Arnie will show him wear to stick it No contest;Arnie wins

- D belle

(Closeup on a panting, sweaty young John Conner. The sound of heavy boots echoes in the distance as the Headless Horsemen approaches and draws his axe. Hope for the cornered boy appears futile, until a Harley crashes through a nearby wall.)

T-800: (taking dead aim with rifle) Hasta la vista, ba...
(The Terminator's half-witted quip is cut short as the shotgun is knocked out of his hand by...a BATARANG! The Dark Knight (TM) himself, Batman, swoops by on a zipline and turns toward the Horseman).
BATMAN: Shreck! I know it's you under there! Come out with your hands up!
(The Horseman removes his cloak and stuffed, buttoned-over-the-neck shirt as a bevy of police cars led by Commissioner Gordon roar onto the scene).
HORSEMAN (now revealed to be Max Shreck, aka Christopher Walken, in disguise): Dammit, Bats...ya got me again!
(He throws up his hands and is escorted off).
BATMAN: (now turning his attention to the T-800) And you, Freeze! You can't escape me forever!
T-800: Ach, I'm afraid I don't know vhat you mean, mein herr...
BATMAN: Does THIS ring a bell?
(He reaches into his utility belt and whips out a videocassette. The batmobile roars by on autopilot and comes to a halt as a large video screen pops out of its hood. Batman pops the tape into a slot in the grill. The T-800 watches in horror as the stinking heap of monkey snot known only as "Batman & Robin" proceeds to play across the screen).
MR. FREEZE: (on videoscreen) Alright everyone...CHILL!!!
(The T-800, unable to take the sudden realization that he was a part of this atrocity, short-circuits. Batman ducks for cover behind the Batmobile's driver side door as the cyborg's head promptly explodes).
BATMAN: (offering his hand to the young Conner) Come on, lad...I need a new ward...
(Fade Out)

- RoboGoober98 ("Batman and Robin" THAT, kids, was scary...)

The Horseman without a head still has more brains than Arnold with a head.

- Captain Corcoran

I had to vote for the Terimator, despite the Headless Horseman's sheer terror. The thing is, he has the better mission, to save mankind, be saving the ancestor of the savior of mankind. We're talking sheer saving from genocide, compared to some lady's PMS rage. I can't vote for evil here, mkay?

- Katrover Swatroad

While Terminator is indeed a formidable foe, there are just too many reasons why he can't win this match. 1st of all part of his ability comes from a vast array of scanners and trackers built into his robot brain, this gives him the ability to analyze a situation, and more importantly analyze his opponent. These will do him very little good here, for I doubt when Skynet designed him, they compensated for ghost/ minions of hell. In fact it would'nt shock me if his System went haywire trying to deal with a supernatural being. 2nd is the fact this match will go longer than just an encounter in the Von Conner home. This match will go all night, and the next night, and ect, until either A. Von Connor is dead, or B. The Headless Horseman is neutralized. This will be a huge problem for the Terminator. The reason Ichabod Crane managed to win in Sleepy Hollow, is he did more than fight, he investigated, he figured out who controlled the horseman and then defeated that person, because he certainly had no luck killing the horseman. Terminator will never figure that out, he'll do the exact same thing he did in Terminator 2, he'll hide Jonathan as long as he can, and then fight when the horseman shows up, but he'll never kill him, and it'll never end because he'll never find the logical solution Crane did. And finally it's my opinion that The Horseman is a much more versatile opponent than the T 1000, the T 1000 was a fairly straight forward chase and kill type, and while The Horseman is similar he is much much faster and much much more agile, which in the end will help him find a way around Terminator. So in the end try as the Terminator might, in the month of October, in a quite little New York town named Sleepy Hollow, heads are gonna roll.

- UX

Another portal tears into the dark New England sky that very evening. A figure slams through the roof of Connor's house, breaking in between the two combatants. The battle-scared bad-ass pushes himself off the ground. He looks at the people in the room. "Cripes, where am I now?" The man gets up. He is wearing a tattered blue work shirt, a chainsaw adorns the stump where his right hand used to be, and a double-barreled shotgun is being held in his other. That's Right! Ash from the Evil Dead Trilogy has just arrived in Sleepy Hollow after a short hiatus in the Middle Ages. Apparently the evil spirits of The Book thought placing the Dark Lord Ash in the middle of a fight between the Terminator and the Headless Horseman would get him killed. Yeah, right! After cracking a few wise-ass jokes at the horseman's and T-800's expense, the ever-horny-one turns his eyes to Miss Katrina (Christina Ricci in a low-cut bust-- THERE IS A GOD!). He walks over to her, pulls her in his arms: "Give me some sugar, Baby!" Laying a big, wet kiss on her. Everybody, even the Terminator, is shocked by this.

The Horseman, of course is unable to see this, lunges for Connor blindly his axe. Ash, thinking this "deadite" was going for him, drops the lovely Katrina to the floor, and fires both 12-gauge rounds into the Horseman body, knocking him to the ground. As the demon pushes himself up, Ash revs his Chainsaw: "Yo, he-bitch! Come gets some!" Our hero proceeds to dismember him in true Evil Dead fashion. The Terminator looks down at the cut-up pieces of the former Demon: "Jesus... who knew dat a ghust had so much blood." Ash grins in that "shit-eating" way of his and proceeds to lift the shocked Katrina from the floor and lay another big kiss (and a one- liner on her). Ol' Icabod doesn't like Ash macking on his woman and tries to break it up. Ash proceeds to beat up scrawny-little Johnny Depp up (the violence turning the ever-gothic Christina Ricci on). The Terminator tries to protect Connor a little and, in turn, gets chopped-up into cyber-genetic pieces by The Chainsaw. Ash J. Williams proceeds to screw a very-willing Katrina doggy-style on the 18th century bear skin rug. HAIL TO THE KING, BABY!!! Winner: Ash (Next time we need to have a real horror movie bout!)

- Evil Ash

Oh Please!!!! Let's look at the track records... Horseman vs. normal people -> Horseman Terminator vs. normal people -> Terminator so they can both lick Jane and Dick Horseman vs. Continental army -> army w/few losses Terminator vs. futuristic resistance army -> heavy losses on both sides, no decision as yet okay, I guess we can call that a tie... Horseman vs. one out-of-his-element colonial New York cop (played by Johnny Depp for God's sake - Edward Scissorhands) -> cop Terminator vs. entire modern LA police dept. -> Terminator Gee, I think that one goes to the Terminator. Terminator(T-800) vs. newer, cooler liquid Terminator(T-1000) -> T800 Horseman vs. his own head -> head Terminator wins even when the odds are against him. Germans vs. Austrians -> Germans (sorry Arnie) okay, so that one would be the laughable "exception-that-blah-blah- blah" Terminator matches or exceeds Horseman in all but one match-up, and the history of your nationality is no precedent. All in all, the Terminator outperforms, outdistances, outthinks(after all, he has a head), and outasskicks, the Headless Horseman.

- Lo-Q-tus of Q-Borg

Ya know, Brendan, there's probably a whole group of people out there who think leather jackets are cool simply because you wear one.

Of course, they're all Xena fanboys, too. And they all look like Ted Raimi. Only with more pimples and glasses. And not at all like Ted Raimi.

- Boden-san, forever worshipping Bruce Campbell as the one true God

The cranially-challenged horseman is cool and all, but we're essentially talking about a good vs. evil match. In a movie-like scenario, good always wins.

- Galahad

As much as it galls me to vote for Arnie, this one comes down to limitations. The horseman just has too many. This fight's going to on for HOURS in a stalemate, until daylight at least, and the horseman has limited daylight capabilities. Going back the Irving story, he has NONE. Second, the horseman gets distracted. Sure, he only goes for who he's summoned to, but if someone else comes and picks a fight with him, he takes the time to turn them into a Caspar Van Dien dancing fountain of blood (tm). Termie just picks people up and throws them out of his way. Thirdly, there's destroyability: It takes either a vat of molten steel or an industrial press to stop the Terminator. Neither is available. It MAY, however, be possible to kill the horseman by burning his tree or chopping him into tiny bits and spreading them up and down the countryside. While I doubt the Terminator's smart enough to think of it, it's possible he could immobilize the horseman long enough that some of the Towns Van People give it a shot. Or he can wait around for Johnny Depp to show up, potentially harnessing his Vast Quantities of Illegal Drugs (tm). Finally, there's sheer smarts. The horseman wants his head. Wants it bad enough to kill Martin Landau (booooo!) But he's still not smart enough to know Miranda Richardson has it even when he walks RIGHT PASSED HER WHILE SHE'S GOT IT. And why's he so dumb? No brain! Arnie = computer. Horseman = scarecrow from Wizard of Oz!

- Jerk Store

Okay, you've gotta be kidding me. We're talking about a headless spectre of absolute horrific death against a pitiful little cyber-freak who couldn't tie his own shoelaces without a program that tells him how to do it.

Let's look at motivation, here. The Terminator wants to save mankind. If he fails, whoop-de-do, no one really liked those pretensious upstarts anyway. The Headless Horseman is driven by the fires of Hell to finish his task, and by God (pun intended) he's going to do it. I mean, put yourself in the contestants shoes. If you had the option of:
a: Failing as the Terminator, and being patted on the back and being told "better luck next time, slugger." or
b: Failing as the Headless Horseman, and spend an eternity suffering in an inferno of pain and suffering, with Lucifer himself mocking your pathetic-ness™ as your entrails spill upon the ground in a wet, slick mess... oh... sorry...

Which would motivate you?

- Death's Evangeline

This match is clearly going to be decided not by the Horsemen vs. Ah-nold... no, no, this match is actually going to be decided by which filmmaker is responsible for the goings-on: Tim Burton or James Cameron. Burton (he of Batman (tm) et. al. fame) is loved by many fans for his dark take on many of our common legends, society, and popular culture (Batman, Sleepy Hollow, Edward Scissorhands). Cameron was respected for his great work on Terminator and others... however, his latest movie was box office cash cow but much-maligned epic Titanic, and I think that we all have a sour taste in our mouths after that one. Hollywood execs are driven by dollar signs, and even though Cameron proved himself as a heavyweight with Titanic, I think they'd be wary of movie-goers shying away from his films like hot women from a Star Trek convention. Frankly, the bigwigs in Tinseltown will see that Burton will draw the audiences that will make their investments pay off, and so he will get the nod. (Plus, even though Cameron has Linda Hamilton, Burton's wife is too hot. Ouch! I can't vote against a vision so lovely or anyone who gets to bang her.)

I'd like to make an addendum if you will to my previous comments on this match. In said comments, I purported that the Horseman would win because Tim Burton's hot wife is much hotter than James Camerson's hot wife. Lo and behold, I hear that Tim Burton his heretofore dumped Lisa Marie, and so I say he is now the dumbest man on this or any other Earth-like planet, and hence, the Terminator wins.

- Adam B

Christopher Walken scares the crap out of me, I don't dare vote against him.

- K-6900 Kridenator

We seem to have a stalemate. Sure, Arnie can rip off the Headless Horseman's limbs at will, but those limbs will just keep coming back for more. After all, he's undead and a German on top of that. Unless the T-800 has Russian parts, I doubt he'll be able to deal with that. On the other side of the fence, what's the Headless Horseman going to do in response to having one of his limbs ripped off? Hit a T-800 with his sword? Big damn deal, Arnie's an android with an ultra- strong skeleton, the Horseman will be lucky if the impact doesn't break his remaining arm as well as his sword. I doubt impalement is going to work either. Headless's usual methods aren't going to work here. The Headless Horsemen is making his freshman appearance on this site, while the T-800 polished off a Predator so it's hardly fair to compare track records. For this match, we must turn to the Golden Rule of Action Films: He who sayest the most witty of dialogue shalt prevail over his foes. With a nigh infinite barrage of head puns (sample: Ice see you haf a goot haid on your shoaldars, Mistah Hoarsemahn, sahhree that it is now own dah flaah), Arnie forces the Horseman to withdraw into the Pit of Hell from which he came. Then he goes and empties a dozen muskets into the witch, dying a heroic death in the process, but destroying her ability to ever summon the Horseman again. Then the T-1000 shows up...

- Ubiq- Course Van Connor obviously survived, why else is Arnie there? Damn paradoxes...

The Headless Horseman is, after all, just a wannbe Horseman of the Apocolypse(TM). (Pestilance beat him out by 2 votes.) The T-800 carries the circuits responsible for the creation of SkyNet and the nuclear holocaust that followed. Thus the Terminator *IS* the Apocolypse(TM). Ol' Headless recognizes the T-Man from his interview board and decides to resubmit his application. T brings up Headless's resume, references, and police record on his internal display and decides that the two DWIs and the Reckless Endangerment charges from last Christmas don't reflect the image the Apocolypse wants to present. Dejected, Headless wanders into the nearest bar and drinks himself into a stupor. On his way home, swerves to miss an oncoming wagon, and wraps his horse around a tree. He wasn't wearing a saftey belt.


Where on earth did you get the idea that 17th or 18th century steel, hell-forged or not (and I think not. Isn't that thing just a standard-issue sword that the Horseman died with?) would have any hope of cutting through some bizarre 21st-century titanium (or whatever the hell that is) armor plate? Let me guess: you also think the Flying Dutchman could kill an Iowa class battleship, or that the ghosts of Napoleon's Grand Armee (picture an accent mark over the last 'e') could defeat the 3rd armored cavalry and their 70+ ton M1A2 tanks? Perhaps Ceaser's ghostly legions could crush Clan Elemental Infantry? I think not. Sorry, Brian, the Horseman may be the Black Knight, but he's gonna wind up like him, too. A torso sitting on the ground may be kinda creepy, but it's really not that effective in the mayhem department. Particularly not when your enemy has not only ripped all your limbs off, but is beating you with the soggy end.

- Zog, the Secret Voice of the Monkey Underground

The Headless Horseman? The HEADLESS Horseman? Give me a break! When it comes to kicking major ass from horseback, there are only FOUR Horsemen that you should be talking about right now (and no, I don't mean "Nature Boy" Ric Flair and his ever-revolving gang of wrestling thugs). How do you think War, Pestilence, Famine and Death feel about this Headless dude stealing all their Horseman thunder, huh? Where's THEIR big-time Hollywood action movie? How come THEY'RE getting the short end of the stick? I mean c'mon... The Four Horsemen Of The Apocalyspe... probably the most fearsome foursome of devastation in history... somehow can't get greenlighted in today's Studio System, but some guy without a head gets to be portrayed by that dude in the Fatboy Slim video?!? That's a TRAVESTY, if I do say so myself! And to think that the FHotA have had to watch as their biggest and best chance at modern-day silver screen fame has gotten stuck in development hell, since Terry Gilliam still can't get the financing to adapt Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett's novel "Good Omens". You know what this means? It means that these four are probably MIGHTY PISSED. So when it comes right down to it... when the battle is joined, I see some outside interference happening on T-800's behalf as the FHotA come from behind and blind-side the decapitated rodeo attraction (although to be honest they actually don't even NEED to come from behind, since EVERY direction on the Headless Horseman is a "blind-side"). The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse need to reclaim their throne as the "Premiere Equestrians of Human Existance", and laying the smackdown on this headless dork is just the first step.

- Fish

T-800 wins this one. Before the Terminators get shipped back in time, they have files uploaded into their brain that help them adjust to the time period they drop in on. So therefore, the T-800 that gets sent to 18th century New England would have detailed files on how to conduct a witch hunt. The T-800 would inform John Van Connor of this data, and Mr. Van Connor would thus properly be able to round up all maidens in town not strictly wearing black and white garments, all those who go to pubs on fridays, who talk back to husbands, who have irregularities in their personalities that suggest devil worship, and are non-virgin single women. The town would then be able to have them all tried and burned at the stake according to the strict guidelines dictated by witch hunt hysteria. After all of the non-virgin, floosy non-married bimbos who did not adhere firmly to the faith are given their just and firey retribution, the vile creature that summoned the horseman would surely be destroyed. Without the summonor and the firey depths of hell to support him, the horsman would be no more.

- Sparty

The match is simple. While the old ass 386-DX in Ah-nuld's head is till loading up the Fiddle_Contest.exe file, the Headless Horseman will have lopped off the head of the ancestor of that annoying brat from the future. With a flash, the Terminator vanishes, and some other schmuck beats Skynet to death with a hammer (probably the grandson of Don Knotts at the rate this series is going), while good ol' HH rides back to Hell with the souls of all of humanity in his back pocket......

- Warlord Ralts

Alright. Let's remember back to T2. The T-800 finally meets his demise via a vat of molten steel. This means that the Terminator can be destroyed by extremely hot metal, i.e. the sword of a Germanic commuter from the fires of eternal damnation, which can cauterize the wounds it inflicts instantly. Second, let's talk geographic experience. The Terminator has been spending most of his time in Southern California, which is inhabited, as everyone knows, by naturally fragile and weak-willed people who prefer flight to fight. His inability to defeat the Southern Californians, who destroy him in the first movie, only emphasizes his pansy-assedness. Conversely, El Jinete Sin La Pista has attained notoreity by consistently hunting down and killing NEW YORKERS, the most singularly hostile people in human history. Finally, think Direction. Sleepy Hollow comes from Tim Burton, master of the grotesque and horrific. Terminator movies come from James Cameron, who wrote Titanic. Burton is a master of the Plot Twist, and so the Horseman's actions will be indecipherable to the T- 800. What will the T-bot do? Sink? Van Connor, and the human race, are bound straight for Hell. The Horseman will win, but return to a much more crowded afterlife.

- -Kleis

By Deductive reasoning the horseman will be henceforth terminated Key assumptions 1) There are more witches in the present day than there were in the american early colonial days (population expansion combined with the fact that it's now considered impolite to burn freaky acting chicks at the stake), this means that, assuming power levels have remained constant, that there is more magical potential energy avaliable. Bear in mind that there was only one witch in the initial summoning. 2) Sky net controls a world where there is no great traditional magical intervention. Nor is there Mr T. 3) The clarke dictum "any sufficiently advanced technology would seem as magic" This results in the conclusion that Sky Net with it's earliest models (t-100's) managed to not only kill all the witches and what they could summon but also remove Mr T from the equation (Probably an early test run of the time machine since nothing else could constrain or hurt Mr T) This leads to the conclusion that Technological terror will triply trounce the hapless headless haunter Postscript Mr T on his way back to the future will save Connor thus preserving a paradox from occuring

- D. "Most gratuitous usage of the T factor" Merzel

I spent most of Sleepy Hollow checking out Christina Ricci's rack, so I really can't say I know the Headless One down pat. But I do know that the Terminator is some sort of robot, while the Horseman is a ghost. You really can't defeat a ghost, unless your name is Egon, or you're on the Disney Channel.

- Grudge-Pops™: Now with REAL lamb's blood!

Well, we acknowledged at the beginning of the match that hell hath no such fury as a woman scorned, and the horseman is clearly the fury of hell.

Now I'm sure the T-800 could take out a woman scorned.

T-800 in 2.4x10-17 seconds, by the transitive property.

- Me, there is no me

As we all know, the Terminator cannot travel in time but naked. We learn from the Terminator movies that Evil Robots of the future have Aryan-Nazi taste, since they designed the Terminator's body in an incredible athletic shape and better-than-human attitude, which I guess also applies to its Naughty Bits (TM). So when the naked über-guy appears in a remote village where the only attraction is a headless horseman (cheap circus trick), he gets all the attention. And this is a huge blow to the Headless Horseman's Ego, since he is all about attitude : theatratical appearance (with loud music), large black clothes (and a cape !), shaped teeth, lack of head etc. Psy Damage Factor (0-100) : 50% Furthermore the HH is German (Hessian), and this kind of propagandist aryian figure has originally been tailored for his culture. He has to fight the Ideal, Superior Man. Additional Psy Damage Factor : (0-100) : 10% HH is remote controlled by a WOMAN ! Malus Factor : 50% (who let that woman drive ?) Total Psy Damage : (50+10)x1,5 = 90% OK, so now the Headless Horseman (HH) has 10% left. He will, in an act of bravour (and to regain the audience) charge against the T-800. Horse dying after impalement on stoic T-800 : Physical damage 100% (horse dies, be it from Hell) HH being slower in combat than the T-800 : Psy Damage (0-100) : 80% (yes, I know, there were only 10% left. Which means the HH is scared more that he could possibly imagine)(and I want this mathematical demonstration to come to the same conclusion even if the WOMAN factor is removed) Physical damage : 100%. HH is not a threat anymore. OK. Now Van Connor is safe. Erm... T-800 to Wimp Scientist : "Do you have a time machine ?" Scientist : "Erm... not yet. Why ?" T-800 : "Never mind" T-800 cannot go back in the future. As he is to protect John Connor, and see to it that Cyberdyne doesn't make Skynet, he takes no risks : T-800 : "Benjamin Franklin, inventor of electricity ?" BF : " Erm... yes. Why ?" T-800 : "Never mind" BLAM !

- Alex Sed Lex

The results will be evident in all of five seconds.

    0:01 - The Headless Horseman swings his axe straight and true.
  • 0:02 - The axe hits the neck area of the bioflesh-covered T-800.
  • 0:03 - Even without eyes and ears, the mounted, undead warrior notices the restriced movement of his iron axe, it being blocked in this instance by a titanium exoskeleton.
  • 0:04 - The T-800 grabs the arm holding the axe.
  • 0:05 - The T-800 proceeds to rip off the arm for use in beating the Headless Horseman to (re)death, not bothering to remove the axe from said arm.

Any questions?

- Nicholas Eckert

A T-800 with NO armor, NO guns, NO transportation, and BRENDAN'S support vs. a strong undead creature with an axe and a horse? One question: How well does the Terminator run without a head?

- Devin the Mental Hospital Escapee

Hmm. My first thought was, "The Headless Horseman is that way for a reason. The Terminator can take down a guy who can't keep his head on his shoulders, right?" I then came to my senses with the realization of, "You oaf! You're an English teacher! Forget common sense and vote for the literary character!" Soooo--Headless Horseman it is.

- Roderic Cliche

I have to go with the headless horseman. There's a differrence between nigh invulnerable and invulnerable. The horseman is invulnerable. The terminator is nigh invulnerable. Besides which, the horseman doesn't have to kill the terminator, just van Connor. If he doesn't do it tonight, he'll do it tomorrrow or the next day. By the way, in "The exception proves the rule" the word "proves" means tests so it is really saying that the exception tests the rule meaning that exceptions show the rule to be invalid. Due to the changes of the English language, this perfectly sensible saying now means the opposite of what it originally meant and is incomprehensible

- I swear I'm not an English Major

Okay.  I'm not sure how anyone thought of this one.  Usually there's some common thread between the competitors, but here...I can't find it.  I mean, what's next week?  Joseph Stalin vs. Yosemite Sam?

Actually, that'd be kinda cool.  Never mind.

As to the outcome, let me say this; the surest way to lose...well...anything is to align yourself with the forces of Hell.  If Satan were trying to win a baseball game, he could conjure any great players he wanted...heck, forget that, he can have nine Kryptonians, and play the game on Mercury for maximum
yellow sun effect, and he'd still lose to...pretty much anything.  I can't think of nine opposing players he could beat.  I can't think of nine opposing sea cucumbers he could beat.

The only success Hell has achieved in its millenia of effort was against Keanu Reeves in Devil's Advocate, and that, I think, speaks for itself.  I mean, that's like challenging a rotted tree stump to a hundred yard dash...and then cheating.

Think about the last time you saw the Forces of Darkness in a movie, book, etc.  Not exactly Cthulhu and friends was it?  The Hamburglar is a far more effective villain, at least walking away with a happy meal.

- Insomnus

The first thing to do is ask does either combatant have anything that can take out the other. All they have available to them are 18th century weapons. They have already proven ineffective against the horseman, and after seeing how little good 20th century weapons do against a T800, I have trouble seeing the headless horseman doing much damage to Ahnuld, either. The next step is to analyze the match on a thematic level. Here, there are two different ways of viewing it. The first is science (the T800 is a technological masterpeice) vs. supernatural (the headless horseman is one seriously pissed-off ghost). Science is limited - it consists of boundaries of possible and impossible. The supernatural is unlimited, and therefore should prevail. But, the match can also be viewed as civilization vs. folklore. The terminator is a product of industrialization and rationalism, whereas the horseman is a representation of fading superstition. As the onward march of technology and development has been proven to slowly but surely crush folk-beliefs, relegating them to myth, Ahnuld would evidently prevail. So a thematic analysis fails. This leaves us with Grudge Match Cliches (tm). Obviously, when Ahnuld is the good guy, he always wins in the end, so he must be the victor. Wait - if the headless horseman is "one seriously pissed-off spirit" (see above) than he must have The Rage (tm), right? Well, probably. However, historical analysis shows that The Rage (tm) is no guarantee of victory, and Ahnuld, when a good guy, has overcome other opponents who possessed The Rage (tm).

- G

"Hasta la vista, b-..." Swish... Thunk...

- Rob the Turkey

I'm a teenage guy, so you know I'm gonna have to answer with something about Buffy from Buffy the Vampire Slayer . DEMON: Buffy kills demons on a regular basis. Makes it look real easy too. TERMINATOR: Hmm, a couple of episodes ago, I saw Buffy kill a robot that was posessed by a demon. Wasn't too easy, it stuck around DESPITE THE FACT THAT GILES BANISHED IT, and Buffy had to take it out by having it accidently electrocute itself (in a rather cliched way, too). seems that robots (like da Terminator) are tougher than your everyday demon (which I am assuming the headless horseman is). IT also seems to prove that robots are easily fooled though... Oh. Good versus evil. Da horseman is terminated. And you thought Brendan was a fanboy...

- Critterman

I voted for the headless horseman, because the superstitious villagers will see a naked, sweaty man speaking in an austrian accent (ah'll be bahk) appear in the middle of a lightning storm, and then they see some guy on horseback (with no head, but this is the 1700's). Now, who do you think they will attack? Some headless rider with an axe, or a hulking brute who was born in lightning, fully naked, and exposi-erm, showing! yes, confidence! that will be the envy of men everywhere.

- Quick2Die

For some reason I can just see the Terminator in a Powdered wig, saying something like, "Prithee and now I shalt kick thine ass royally!!"

- Nobody

I can almost not even believe the set-up of the latest grudge match. The Headless Horseman vs. the Terminator with the Terminator playing the role of protecting a distant ancestor of the Connor clan? OK, this is real easy guys: August 29th, 1997 has already come and gone. Skynet did not create Armageddon (TM). Therefore, every Terminator that was ever sent back to protect any Connor from anything had to have been successful. Seriously here: entire German Panzer divisions could have come up against his grandfather serving on the front lines in World War II to no avail. Both Hercules and Xena could have teamed up against Maximus Connorus only to have their buttocks (TM) whooped by a Terminator. The Headless Horseman doesn't stand a chance even if he had all the denizens of Hell (not TM) with him. If the Headless Horseman won the contest, then I couldn't even be sitting here typing about why the Terminator would win--and you guys wouldn't be sitting around to argue about it. Can I possibly make myself any more clear than that? No? OK, I'll stop now.

- Asahel

For some more viewer responses, click here


I just think it's funny that the Headless Horseman has no head, but speaks much better English.

- They Call Me Marsh

If you liked this match, check out these other past matches:

Waldo v. Carmen Sandiego (featuring T-1000 Terminator)
Chucky v. Toy Story
Terminator v. Predator

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Next Match: Big Gun in the Dark
ETA: Monday, November 5th, 2001

© 2001, Dragon Hamster Productions, LLC