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What is Grudge Match?
What is Grudge Match?

The Scenario

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate crime and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories...

Former home of John and Patsy Ramsey
Boulder, Colorado
February 25th

"Lennie! Down here is where they found the body." The two men head under the crime scene tape to take a look in the basement. As they poke around the scene, voices are heard from above, and several men come down the stairs.

"Who the hell are you?!" demands one of them. "This is a crime scene -- police only!"

"Well we are the police," quips Lennie Briscoe, holding up a badge. "Detectives Briscoe and Curtis, NYPD."

"Yeah, well that badge and four-fifty will get you a latte at Starbucks," replies the local detective. "It doesn't mean anything here."

"It does now," replies Detective Rey Curtis, handing the man some papers. "An article in last month's Star Magazine linked minor elements of this crime to events occurring in Manhattan. ADA Jack McCoy then tied everything around this case into a conspiracy indictment against an unnamed defendant, which allows the Manhattan DA's office and the NYPD to assume jurisdiction on all elements of the crime, including this crime scene. It's all spelled out in the court order. Any questions should be addressed directly to Adam Schiff's office."

"This is garbage!" yells the man, scanning the papers. "We don't need your help!"

"Well, no offense buddy," replies Lennie, "but the whole country's been laughing at you and your department ever since this investigation started. You should be thanking us for bailing you out. Now, if you stay out of our way, we might even invite you to the post-conviction press conference."

"This is far from over," replies the obviously disgruntled detective, who storms up the stairs with his fellow officers.

"You know, Lennie," Curtis says quietly, "I don't think this case is gonna be that easy."

"It's a walk in the park, Rey. You know how much I love media cases."

So, gentlemen, can the Law & Order cast solve this mystery and bring a criminal to justice, do the bad guys get away with murder, or can they squeeze somebody into a manslaughter plea bargain?

Not familiar with the JonBenet Ramsey case? Learn more.
Not familiar with Law & Order? Watch it.

JonBenet Ramsey Murder Case Law and Order: Rey Curtis, Lennie Briscoe, Claire Kincaid, Jack McCoy

The JonBenet Ramsey Case on Law & Order

The Commentary

HOTBRANCH!: If you'll allow me to go Jack Lord for a moment...

Book 'em Danno!

Thank you.

If there was ever a case that needed the help of New York's finest, this is the one. Briscoe and Curtis represent, as Shane pointed out in my inaugural Ground Zero™ match, "a New York police force unafraid to actually catch criminals". Clearly, the Boulder detectives are suffering long-term retinal damage from the days of the Broncos' bright penitentiary-orange uniforms and haven't been able to read the tabloid headlines pointing out who is responsible for the death of an innocent child. Hell, even Duckman could solve this case!

When you look at the long history of catching and convicting criminals, the Law & Order gang are head and shoulders above all others in TV history. Why? Because instead of being an hour-long, drawn out cop or lawyer show, producer Dick Wolf cut out the boring crap (not to mention the song and dance numbers) and gave the audience two shows in one satisfying hour (it's the peanut butter cup of television, really). Boulder is going to be in a New York state of mind, and just like in Super Bowl XXI, the New Yorkers are gonna bitchslap the Coloradans.

The NYPD are top-notch: Briscoe and Curtis always find the criminals. The less likely it looks like they are able to do it in their allotted half hour of the show, the more rock-solid the DA's case ends up being. NYPD homicide detectives are like Cole Sear: they have a sixth sense. They see guilty people...

As for the prosecutors, McCoy and Kincaid are thorough and get their convictions, even when the detectives forget to get the necessary warrants or when they fail to respect certain trivial details listed in the constitution. In this case, however, Lennie and Rey have the right warrants and McCoy is always a hardass when it comes to cases involving kids. As for Claire Kincaid, the Boulder PD doesn't want to mess with her: first, she's Canadian; second, getting her mad is like crossing Jordan. Bad things, man. Bad things...

So as to not be a spoiler, the identity of the person(s) who will be found guilty of the murder of JonBenet can be seen here.

STEVE: Sure, Briscoe and Curtis are top-notch. They'll do whatever needs to be done to solve a case, even if it is a little borderline, in true NYPD style. Much more effective than the time-wasting and evidence-losing police of Boulder. ("Brought to you by The State of Colorado (tm), where the police won't even go into a high school to stop a shooting rampage.") Officers Barbrady and Cartman of nearby South Park would be doing a better job than the Boulder police. So Paul, I do agree that Briscoe and Curtis are going to pull in an arrest or two, but other than that, there's only so much evidence that can be drummed up after such a long time has passed since the crime.

Unfortunately, while the cops are first rate and will do what they can, it's not likely the DA's office is up to pulling off a murder conviction. How often have you seen someone on L&O get arrested, have a clean-cut case, and then just go straight into prison? Never, because it would be as boring as watching curling at the Olympics. If this is going to take our required half-hour of legal maneuvering, then there is going to be questionable practices, and gaping holes in evidence. That means just one thing: plea-bargain. Seriously, how many times have you watched Law & Order and there hasn't been a plea bargain somewhere during your hour of quality television viewing?

It's even more obvious when you realize that in order to compete with all the L&O spinoffs, there is going to have to be plenty of screen-time for Jill Hennessey, who is incentive enough for many to watch the show. And when you have the junior counsel running the case, then there's bound to be some screwups and missed opportunities. In the end, it's inevitable that any murder charges will have to be reduced to something like manslaughter or maybe even jaywalking.

As a matter of fact, the JonBenet Ramsey case has already been on Law & Order and had an outcome of Plea Bargain. See for yourself on the Law & Order website's episode guide!

BRIAN: Well, Steve, you're half right, but at least that puts you one-half ahead of Hotbranch! Sure, L&O tackles tough cases all the time, often winning but sometimes not, but they've simply never faced a case this tough before. Questionable cross-jurisdictions, multiple states, ancient evidence, media frenzies, interference from local officials, possible political involvement, grieving yet shadowy parents... maybe they can take on one or two of those at a time, but not all of them. Plus, on this kind of stage, McCoy won't be able to resist the temptation to try to rewrite the constitution (again) which will just waste time and effort. They'd have a better chance of convicting O.J. in a retrial then they would have getting somewhere with this mess.

Also, keep in mind that this is a real case and thus will be happening in real time. Forget a one hour wrap-up of events -- this thing will drag on for months and probably years. Thus, halfway through the investigation, Curtis is replaced by that black guy that no one likes, which sends the case into a shambles. Once the legal proceedings begin, the revolving door at the DA's office will be spinning like mad as usual and McCoy won't even know who he's working with. He'll probably go through 3 Assistant Hot Chicks™ in the same deposition. The Babe Factor™ does you no good if you can't hang onto any of them.

To make matters worse, part way into the investigation we suddenly get JonBenet Ramsey: SVU, followed by JonBenet Ramsey: Criminal Intent. Look out soon for JonBenet Ramsey: Court Stenographers. Law & Order's effort to take over NBC will spread their resources so thin that they won't even have the proper manpower for the case. And don't get me started on all the distractions arising from the inevitable cross-over episodes done with Ed (Ed joins the defense team for a brief period), The West Wing (The President looks into forming a task force that [gasp] might rob McCoy of his investigative power), and Crossing Jordan (because forensics is always sexy and never boring). The final cross-over is a fatal flaw, however. Once Claire Kincaid comes in contact with Dr. Jordan Cavanaugh, the resulting matter/anti-matter explosion decimates everything in the Law & Order universe, with ripple effects felt all the way to the NY Giants secondary.

This one ends up in a folder on top of McCoy's filing cabinets. Five years later, it's turned into a special episode on The All New In Search Of... series, hosted by Brent Spiner, where the true killer is finally revealed to be...

The Results

Guilty (1333 - 62.1%)


Plea Bargain (490 - 22.8%)


No Conviction (324 - 15.1%)

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Voter Comments


Bristoe steps up to the chalk-drawn outline surrounding the spot where Ramsey's body was found. "I don't like it, Curtis," he says in a low voice, only minutes away from the program's conclusion. "These clues are way beyond us. We may need to call in a special team." Fadeout.

Two weeks later, Law & Order: Special Forensics premieres. The lead investigator of the L&O:SF team joins the medical examiner at the autopsy table. The body is beginning to smell quite rank. "That smell is the key to this murder! I know it! But we need some help if we're going to nail the killer. We need... Law & Order: Odor Identification!" The new Law & Order team moves in to take a crack at the case. The Odor ID team, led by a nasally-endowed man and several bloodhounds, begins sniffing out the killer (pun most definitely intended). After 4 episodes of nearly fruitless searching, the team unearths yet another unsettling fact: JonBenet Ramsey was not actually killed! She was in fact living in a beat-up motor home with Elvis and a woodchuck!

This was nothing for an Odor Identification team to handle, so L&O: IRSAFH was ushered into the NBC Fall season! The team of Internal Revenue Service Agents From Hell set out to find JonBenet and Mr. Presley (who had skipped out on several decades of taxes). Despite the fact that the IRS Agents have absolutely nothing to do with the Police or Criminal Prosecutors, ratings are soaring. Many are anxiously awaiting the next installment of the Law & Order Legacy. This is, of course, L&O: HFLAPRISM (Law & Order: Hot Female Lawyers And Policewomen Running In Slow Motion).

- sPeciAL eD

Silver Grudgie ROTW Silver Medal GrudgieTM

Wait.... there's no drug dealers or gutter trash for Lennie and Rey to push around and threaten? How can they get any evidence if there's no drug dealers and gutter trash to push around and threaten? This is the most boring two-hour special I've ever watched!

- Dingo

Bronze Grudgie ROTW Bronze Medal GrudgieTM

Local detective: Alright guys, I got to know, how are you going to solve this one?
Lennie: With the magic of Television
(Two days later)
Local Detective: What the hell just happened?
Curtis: We just jumped ahead to the point of the investigation where we find the big clue.
(Lennie walks up with a bag, and shows Curtis what is inside)
Curtis: This is what we have been looking for!
Local Detective: What is it.
Lennie: You'll have to wait.
Local Detective: Why?
Curtis: You know nothing about keeping an audience hooked, do you? Anyway we have to get to Florida.
Local detective: How?
Lennie: Don't worry, by the time the commercials are over, we will already be at the killer’s house
Lennie: alright, he's in there, waiting for us to capture him and then tell us why he did it all before the hour is up!
Local detective: Wow, this is the strangest thing I have ever seen.
(Curtis busted into the house)
Curtis: Come on out, we know you’re in there.
?????: You can't prove anything!
Lennie: Oh ya?
(pulls out of the bag a blood soaked glove)
????: No!
Curtis: That's right, you’re under arrest for the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, OJ SIMPSON!
OJ: Where's Johnny when you need him?
(cut to a dinner two days later)
Lennie (taps the local detective): This is where you ask us how did we know all of this.
Local detective: Oh, right. how did you guys know all of this.
Curtis: It's simple. We found out that the Ramseys when to LA a week before JonBenet was killed. We also learned that JonBenet was a big football player.
Local detective: OJ!
Lennie: That’s right. While there, JonBenet found the matching bloody glove and kept it. OJ tried to get it back, but when she wouldn't give it to him, he killed her!
Local detective: Good, but 1 question, how does this all link up to New York City? That’s why your here, right?
Curtis: That's right. Well, there is only one other man in the World who likes easy white women, then tries to get rid of them.
Local detective: You don't mean...
Lennie: That's right, Bill Clinton. Bill hired OJ to kill a stripper he was cheating with. OJ killed her the same way JonBenet was murdered, so we knew there had to be a connection.
Local detective: But what about Bill.
Curtis: He has a worse punishment then the courts could give him.
Lennie: Yea, he's married to Hillary!
(All freeze in classic TV fashion. Fade to black.)

- Mr. A

This match will go to Team Law & Order who will handily get a conviction. The reason they will win, like the show, is best described in two separate but equally important parts.

The Police Who Investigate Crime: The homicide detectives on L&O are a bunch who is at (or somewhat above) Mentos(tm) level coolness. There is Lenny Briscoe, who is simply too experienced to fool. He has seen just about any trick in the book. Plus, he is played by Jerry Orbach, a true multi-talent from stage, screen, and TV who has been hailed by Conan O'Brien as "the coolest guest". Then there is his partner. The function of the partner on the show is like that of an assistant. Briscoe has had several of them over the run of the series. Anyone see a pattern here? This is somewhat similar to "Dr. Who". Another point in favor of L&O.

The District Attorneys Who Prosecute Offenders: A truly solid team. The leader is District Attorney Adam Schiff. Schiff will handle this case like Paul "Bear" Bryant or Tom Landry would handle a football game. He will call strategy to his star player... Jack McCoy. Now McCoy eats, drinks, breathes, and sleeps the law. He will pursue the case with the strength of a fanatic. Also, McCoy can bend various rules of evidence and testimony into pretzels much like James T. Kirk could bend the Prime Directive. Plus, McCoy is used to working with high-powered New York defense attorneys. The ones they have in Colorado would pose no challenge. He will simply steamroller them. As for the younger ADA, she will not play any role in the case though Schiff or McCoy might send her on a few errands. The female ADAs on L&O are not the brightest people in the world (though they are attractive). Heck, if Angie "Baywatch Nights" Harmon could be cast as one, they must be very dumb indeed. But Schiff isn't stupid, so he will make sure that Claire (the female ADA in this case) stays out of McCoy's way.

In short, the combined skills of Brisco, Schiff, and McCoy will crush the defense team like an empty soda can and send the murderer to a lifetime stay at Hotel Greybar.

- The Demented Astronomer

The real question is, will this be "an episode that no viewer should miss," "a very special two-part episode," or just enough for "a broadcast original movie"?

- Charge Man

Ok folks, after rummaging through my steel trap memory for all the McCoy L&O episodes (since his predessor is a beaten down drunk now) I've come to the conculsion that it is impossible for anything other than a plea bargin down to Murder 2.

"How?", do you ask? Simple. That is the near unanimous verdict for someone that is guilty but that McCoy and Kinkade (or Ross or Carmicheal or Southerlyn) can't go for broke on because of judicial Issues. The only debate left is for the sentence. Normally 20-to-life suits Jack, but if it's really iffy it may drop down to 15-to- life. Seeing as Lennie and Rey haven't gotten a break since "... sometime in 95, right Rey." They are gonna be working double not only to finally put away The Ramseys (come on everyone knows they did it), but also to get back to the Two-Seven so lennie can hit his AA meeting and Rey can go and make sure his poor wife had survived another day with MS and the kids. With speed being of the essence, they will probably call in ALL the reinforcements. Wait, scratch that. They will call in all the NORMAL L&O reinforcements. This being the WWWF that means that they and all their other personas can come too. So after Jordan Raises Greevy and he brings on board all the Crimson Tide Crewmembers, Cerreta is called back from his desk Job in the 110 (bringing with him a bunch of Goodfellas (TM)), Logan and all his chicks from Sex and the City and Adam Schiff pulled from his financial commercials they will be trampling enough rights to make sure that A: the Ramseys are in court and B: they are so scared that they will sign the plea to murder two in less time then it takes Patsy Ramsey to break down into a fit and scream, " You stupid sonovabitch. You couldn't even hide the body right!"

After word I'm sure we'll see all the cast walking out of the court house talking with Diane West coming to greet them. As it fades to black I'm sure we'll here Lennie say somethign to the effect of, "At least my 3rd ex-wife only CLAIMED to want my daughter's head on a platter."

- Sliverthorn - Law and Order 6 times aday.. WOOHOO!!!!!!!!

An unexpected note of seriousness, this one.

As much as we might want to punish the guilty bastards who did this, the evidence is not sufficient. No conviction.

No smart comments this time.

- Galahad

Does the media want this case solved? No, because a verdict ends the money making media circus. Even if the case IS solved, you and I will never hear of it; we'll be seeing new "Batboy suspected in Ramsey case" headlines until the day the vice president makes an honest dollar (i.e. forever).

- The Bunyip

First off, if you don't know already, tabloids are arragontly, appallingly, and unabashedly Full Of Shit(tm). For $3.50 per magazine per week that kind of money would be better off sewn together in a really large handkerchief. In the event there was some truth inside a Globe or Star or what have you, it would be blotted out by some hokey story WITH LARGE TYPE LIKE THIS about how one of England's princes was 'seen' dating a French Soccer Hooligan. No matter how much truth a tabloid has, the flashiness of its articles makes a tabloid forgotten faster than Bronson Pinchot's career.

Why do we forget? Because any statement p produced by any given tabloid produces a converse statement !p (or [not]p, since I can't insert fancy symbols) in our minds. For example, The National Enquirer stating that the "Cops Found [A] Murder Witness," [p] they in truth really didn't. [!p] At least, that's what we're inclined to believe, given the hypothesis above. And as such, we dismiss these journalistic Jehovah's Witnesses with a figurative slam of the door.

That aside, what do we know?:
A.) An otherwise innocent child was murdered, and possibly raped (*shakes his head*),
B.) The USA, in general, does not show disdain towards beauty pageants (beauty: a superficial trait) of children as young as Jon Benet Ramsey (age six), especially since there's something called "Meghan's Law" here in the state of New Jersey. (If you don't know, look it up yourself. It's for the best.)
C.) 2,000 children were murdered (and that's only murders, lest we forget about the social deviants in this country) in 1996 and yet the death of the 'prettiest little girl' is the only one that our minds can easily recall with a slight nudge,
D.) An accomplished New York Police Officer, Detective Curtis, believed a Star Magazine may have evidence towards a national trial.

A legitimate cop relies on a Star Magazine as a depository for possible evidence? What's his major malfunction? In March 2000 the Ramseys successfully settled for $25 million against Star for slanderous articles "linking JonBenet's death to Burke...[after] Boulder police have said Burke is not a suspect." Curtis wants to use a magazine successfully sued against by the perpetrators.

To quote Kent Brockman, there's only one word for this action: idiocy.

In light of this logic, Detective Curtis will then abandon all hope and consult the Magic Eight Squall (tm). Detective Curtis: *shake* *shake* *shake* "Are the Ramsey parents the true murderers?" The little triangle floats up in the morass, revealing its response: All signs point to "whatever." Indeed...two episodes later, Curtis's time on the stand is the same "whatever," and the parent Ramseys are cleared through insufficient evidence. And on a final note, nice touch on the 'real killers' pictures. Great work! I suppose their next pictures in a tabloid will be them engaging in a round of golf with O.J. Simpson for no real reason other than to spite those paparazzi.

- Zoelef

I think they'll be guilty at 7 p.m., 11 p.m., and again at 3 a.m. With more recent guilt on TNT. They ALWAYS find the guy. Even if it turns out the be the wife of the guy who framed him. They always find him. It NEVER turns out to be "Random Street Loony Who Appears in Final Minute in Episode." So they'll find him, and if the evidence isn't all kosher, McCoy can suspend habeus corpus. Try to stop him - he's Lincoln. And unless the murderer turns out to be a failed Southern actor with poor aim and misguided leaping abilities, Lincoln gets to do whatever he wants. Bet your bottom 5 dollars.

- Singing French Candlestick, NYPD

"Your Honor, I would like to call, as a witness..."
The courtroom goes quiet as Clint Eastwood walks in, shotgun in hand.
"I'm looking for the mother and father of the little girl."
Mrs. Ramsey raises a tentative hand, only to take a shotgun blast to the chest. Followed closely by Mr. Ramsey who is trying to 'clear out the back'.
"You coward! She was unarmed!" screams the judge.
"Anyone that'd kill a little girl, ought to arm themselves."
Needless to say, No Conviction, as they're dead. And the above situation is about the only thing that would make me /ever/ watch Law and Order.

- G-Man

The real losers will be the WWWF, if the Ramsey's laywer gets to hear of this.

- Nobody

I have to take issue with Brian's Hennessy assessment. Law & Order is nothing short of famous for its willingness to recycle actors in multiple roles. S. Epatha Merkerson and Jerry Orbach both had bit parts, and they're stars of the show now, for cryin' out loud! Jill Hennessy has a twin sister. NBC could pull off a crossover with Crossing Jordan and then get both Jordan and Claire on the same show, thus scoring an unprecedented Double Babe Factor™. Victory is assured--cue the guitar!

Now, if they could just bring back Paul Sorvino, and find a way to work in his daughter, they'd be able to score a triple...

- Phil

Yes, the vote will be guilty, but JonBenet's parents won't be the ones who are found guilty. That's right, you guessed it...the guilty party will be Some Puerto Rican Guy (TM). The only problem is that the entire police force of New York will be combing the country trying to find him, leaving New York unprotected. It will eventually take on the appearance of an apocalyptic war zone...and Snake Plissken will probably have to try and escape again.

- Scotty J. "never thought he'd mix South Park and Escape from New York in one response"

Briscoe isn't Sipowitz, so the odds of him getting a confession out of the Ramseys are nil, BUT, if Law and Order is jumping jurisdictions, then it is more than likely that the Ramsey's business dealings in Baltimore mean the sudden involvement of Detectives Bayliss and Pembleton. While Bayliss overcomes his alleged homosexuality to hit on Jill Hennesey one more time (who can blame him), Pembleton gets the Ramseys in the box (or two boxes) and breaks them down in true Pembleton fashion.

Now, while they may have a confession, Mr. McCoy's win-loss record is less than stellar. In fact, I remember a multi-week losing streak during which my Mother asked "Does this idiot ever convict anyone?" While ADA McCoy can get convictions, it is more often in cases with a great deal of grey area, when the viewer thinks maybe justice would be better served if the defendant went free, or when McCoy is levelling far more serious charges than the facts merit, and especially when a defendant is clearly an innocent taking the fall for someone. The Ramseys, however, are rich and despicable. They will hire a really good lawyer whose tricks will infuriate McCoy more and more, and his impassioned speech at the end will do him no good.

- G

If they'd been reading National Enquirer over the past years like I have, this case would have been closed in a month! It was the horned baby of the three-headed Abe Lincoln clone that killed her! Sheesh, does anybody read the papers any more?

- Grduge-Pops™: Proud sponsors of the 2002 Glutton Bowl

As every good cop knows, picking up the trail of a killer after the initial six hours after the incident have passed is almost impossible. It's been years since the Joan Benet trail has gone cold, and if anything proves the futility of continued investigation, it's the JFK assasination. So far we've been able to track the killer's trail to the CIA, Fidel Castro, some guy named Omar, the KGB (back when it was still cool), Sam Giencana (Chicago mob dude) and Marilyn Monroe. The Kennedy case, while closed, has resulted in absolutely ZERO convictions and a bad Oliver Stone flick which further confused the mess. The mess has become so bad that not even Fox Mulder and Dana Scully could sort things out.

Same sort of situation is developing in the Ramsey case. The witnesses that probably know the most about what happened haven't exactly been forthcoming, and crime reporters and psuedo-investigators have had their opportunity to pollute the case with all sorts of crazy wild ass theories and leads. The good folks from Law and Order will find themselves wasting most of their time chasing these countless bogus leads and sifting through crazed theories that could, after all, still be a legitimate possibility, but really everybody knows are just dumb. When all is said and done, they'll come up with absolutely nothing to show for their investgative efforts, except a huge waste of taxpayer money. Killers get away scot free.

- Sparty

Guilty? Innocent? Temporary insanity? I myself really don't give a rat puckey as to the outcome of the trial, just that it will provide the Law & Order crew with something else to do besides picking on us goths (TM pending sooner than you think). I myself have only caught two episodes of L & O, and in BOTH, the defendants were your typical black-clad, clove-smoking, wannabe-vampire goths. I actually believe (though maybe I was drunk at the time) that one of the trials began with a line like:

JUDGE: So, Vlad the Immortal, do you promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, yadda yadda yadda... Well, we aren't going to stand for it anymore! We're tired of this blacklisting (no pun intended)!

Any excuse to keep us off TV (ALWAYS a reliable source of truth...sheah right) is good by me! Let our battle cry be: DEATH TO THE TABLOIDS!!!

- RoboGoober98, Executive VP of the PGU (Pretentious Goth Union)

Grudgematch was created to portray matches that we only wish could take place in real life. And I think I know what we all wish will happen.

- Noman

Law and Order: can solve any case in one hour Jon Benet Ramsey Case: has been oging on non stop for years. Outcome: the Law and Order people solve the case in 40 min, leaivng enough time for them to also crack the O.J Simpson Murder case, find out were Jimmy Hoffa is, and uncover who stole Carrot Top's talent. Moral: No matter how unsolvable a case is, Crime Drama TV show's can solve it.

- Dane "The New Prodigy"

I truly believe it's a shame there is no All Mangled and Killed sentence in the U.S. judicial system.

- The Ultimate Genie

If McCoy can sleep with Kincaid, he can do anything.

- Tahna Los

First of all, I can truly say with all the convections in my heart that I hate Law and Order. My parents believe in watching every damn episode, so there is always one TV in our house with it on. How many times must that guy (don't know his name, but he lives in his office apparently) argue with the chick he works with? You would think they would agree on at least one aspect of the case. But no, every new point of evidence is thrown out the window by the other side. Its like the commentators here, but without the below the belt name calling and other entertainment. Thus, I can only see the cast spending too much time fighting with each other, while the Ramseys stand omniously in the shadows.

- Sexy Chris, The Hellish Demon Beast

Mister Green... in the hall... with the revolver...
Now I'm going to go home and sleep with my wife!

- Fish

Under the collective pressure from Jack's passionate indignance and hair shellack (I'm telling you, that hair never moves!), the defendant will crack. However, even if there is no conviction, we will definitely find out who's guilty:

In the tag scene, Claire will discover a piece of evidence that was overlooked--a credit card receipt, a photo, an empty potato chip bag-- which will point to the guilty party. The camera will pan from Jack to Claire as they exchange horrified, knowing glances. If NBC is short on cash that week, this will be the end of it. If we're lucky, though, the Guilty Party(tm) will be called into the DA's office and, after more of Jack's ranting and hair shellack, the Guilty Party will confess to the wrongdoing.

- Ace!

The Law and Order gang are pikers. You think Briscoe and Curtis are impressive because they solve one case in half an hour? Try a group of NYPD-ers who manage to solve an average of three cases in their allotted half-hour, and send every criminal off to trial with a heartfelt moral lesson (tm). For if Manhattan now has jurisdiction over this case, then that means detectives Barney Miller, Wojciehowicz, Fish, Harris, Yemana and Dietrich are free to go in (perhaps in women's clothes left over from all those "mugging detail" episodes), and arrest the culprit in no more time than it takes for Fish to make three more incontinence jokes. Then it's just a matter of turning him over to the gang at Night Court, where he is held over for the murder of JonBenet and all the dead female bailiffs.

Afterward, Harry, jealous that Law and Order gets more viewers on A&E than his show, oversteps his bounds as a judge (again) by sentencing Dick Wolf to a lifetime of watching reruns of his own short-lived Mann and Machine. Yes, forget about Dick Wolf's franchise: No one can beat the awesome criminal justice system of Reinhold Weege (tm).

- Captain Corcoran

I didn't vote, for I am not yet 18.

- Timmy Jones

Somebody always pays on L&O. The guilty party might get away but someone in an ancillary position will be railroaded into a plea bargain where they'll give up something damning on the real bad guys. McCoy's not losing this one.

- let 'em get OJ, too!

I can offer the unique perspective of being the only person in America who has been a fan of both L&O and Grudge Match since their debuts. With that said, I offer this resolution to the current Grudge Match. McCoy and Kincaid were ready to offer a plea bargain of involuntary manslaughter with a recommendation of a suspended sentence when it was announced in Boulder that the Perps had been arrested and convicted. This is how it happened.

The Boulder police were so incensed by the intrusion of the NY L&O team that it even outweighed the ridicule they suffered on the late night shows. They knew they had to solve the case first. They immediately formed a special task force of police and prosecutors they knew were much more talented and solved much tougher and more interesting cases than the NY L&O team. The Boulder Law Team went back to the crime scene at the request of the Boulder Order Team and scoured the crime scene. They found new evidence that was overlooked by both the Boulder police and the NY Law team - missed by the former due to ineptness and the latter because Lennie was too busy thinking up irrelevant and irreverent wisecracks and Curtis was preoccupied with the upcoming episode with Julia Roberts and hoping it would get filmed before she and Benjamin Bratt split. With this new evidence, the Boulder Order Team got an immediate conviction of first degree murder with a life sentence and no possibility of parole.

How could this happen you say after all these years. It is very simple and immediately obvious to any true fan of L&O who has watched it from the beginning and experienced angst over many of the cast changes. The Boulder special task force was made up of Max Greevey, Mike Logan, Ben Stone and Paul Robinette. The irony of this even made Adam Schiff smile. A footnote to the Grudge Match Judge: Don’t disqualify my answer because Max Greevey is on the team - if you can bring back Kincaid from the auto accident I bring back Greevey from being shot. Also, don’t disqualify me if you ever want any more birthday or Christmas presents.

- Proud WWWGM-Dad

haha.....conviction. This is America we're talking about. They don't convict white people. What are you from, Canada?

- the mysterious "jimmy"

Universal Studios offices: 11:55 A.M. -
Executive: Golly, I'm hungry. How many proposals do we have left?
Secretary: Two.
Executive: Send them both in. Let's get this over with so I can go to lunch.
[Secretary leaves and sends in two writers who want to pitch their television shows.]
[As they enter, the writers run into each other spilling their scripts on the floor. They both scramble to get their scripts in order.]
Writer 1: You got cop show in my legal drama!
Writer 2: You got legal drama in my cop show!
Executive [perusing the intermingled scripts]: This is great! Order up two seasons! It's the peanut butter cup of television, really.
Law & Order - Two great scripts that script great together!

- Mark Wentz - There's no wrong way ... to plagiarize Hotbranch!

For a quick second, Brian had a shot at pulling this one out. Yeah, Law and Order is gonna have a lot of tough complications if they want to catch her killer. But does he REALLY want to bring the rest of the NBC universe into this? Baaad move. Not only will they have access to the genius of L&O:CI's Detective Goren, and the full backing of the US Government (You think President Bartlet's involvement is gonna be a bad thing??? This is an election year in this shows timeline!), but they will have double the Jill Henessey for this little run in. (for all this talk about blowing up the universe, has it ever happened? On any show? Anywhere?)

Expect Law and Order to wrap this one up in a few months (here is a good time to point out that EVERY Law and Order episode is in real time) revealing the true killer *cough* her dad *cough*...and in that respect, isn't this every law and order episode??

- Altered States

The legal side of things is doomed to failure, and there is no conviction. The state of Colorado gets [control of the trial], so using South Park as the only available cultural refference, whatever the prosecution says will be shot down by the "Chewbacca" defense strategy. "I'm trying to prove the Ramsey's are innocent, and all of a sudden I start talking about Chewbacca. Now that does not make sense! Why would Chewbacca..." Five minutes later the jury is so confused that they let the Bennet- Ramsey's free faster than you can say "OJ was guilty".

- Some Puerto Rican Guy

Whatever the outcome, the tabloids/TV media are going to have a field day. Expect to see stuff like this:

DAY#1: NYPD find floating head in local lake.
DAY#2: Floating head turns out to be worn-out soccer ball.
DAY#3: Neighbour casts suspicion on local goat. “There was blood on one of his horns”, says neighbour.
DAY#4: NYPD takes goat in for questioning.
DAY#5: In a suspiscious display of good humour, Patsy Ramsey found laughing at city street.
DAY#6: Goat released. “He wouldn’t talk”, says Briscoe.
DAY#7: In a suspiscious display of something, John Ramsey found sneezing near shopping mall.
DAY#8: NYPD finds evidence of satanic cult in Boulder.
DAY#9: “Satanic cult” turns out to be slightly confused group of computer engineers.
DAY#10: Local woman claims Curtis is the father of her baby.
DAY#11: UFO spotted on outskirts of Boulder.
DAY#12: Inside source verifies that aliens could have been involved with murder.
DAY#13: Local woman claims space aliens kidnapped her baby.
DAY#14: Inside source turns out to be slightly crazed guy with a telephone.
DAY#15: The butler did it.
DAY#16: Scientist conclusively proves that JonBenet Ramsey did not, in fact, exist. Ad nauseum (emphasis on nausea).

By the time this is over, the Law & Order people will have closed the case out of sheer irritation.

- Boba "I clicked on the 'guilty' link. Cute. Real Cute." Foot

I say the case gets thrown out after the lawyers are eaten by Camryn Manheim from The Practice.

- Infraggable Krunk

The Ramseys hire the Practice, who Plan B John Elway. The Ramseys get off scot free, John Elway gets stabbed in prison by a Raiders fan.

- Kilgore Trout

The problem with this case isn't in the courtroom but in actually FINDING THE KILLER! And in the L&O world, the longer it takes to find the offender, the easier McCoy's job is. Conviction in the last 2 1/2 seconds before your local news.

- "Just the Facts" Canus Shamus

The true complexity of the Law & Order-verse is revealed in its spin- offs. Half the cast of Special Victims Unit also appears as inmates on Oz, HBO’s increasingly ludicrous and irrelevant prison drama. SVU also features in its cast Ice-T, whose film career is littered with roles where he played a drug dealer, gang member or pimp and who supposedly at one time actually was a pimp. Finally we’ve got Richard Belzer as Detective Edward Munch, formerly of Homicide: Life on the Street, who also appeared in an episode of The X-Files. Criminal Intent stars Vincent D’Onofrio, who appeared on Homicide as a man crushed between two subway cars. Clearly, D’Onofrio’s character is some sort of super-zombie with amazing regenerative powers, a fact that only strengthens the link with The X-Files as that sort of shit happens on that show all the time.

As we all know, on The X-Files everything is somehow linked to some vast shadow conspiracy, including apparently a New York Police Department that employs convicted murderers, pimps, and super- zombies. This link between series sheds light on Law & Order’s constantly changing cast of characters. Clearly, most if not all of Law & Order’s former Detectives and Prosecutors are now rotting in shallow graves because they “got too close”.

The Law & Order gang will jump on a plane and head to Colorado to finally solve one of the most obvious cases in recent history, but without evidence even the L & O crew are powerless, and the only thing they’ll find that even resembles a clue will be a stubbed out Morley cigarette in one corner of the basement. On the way home to New York, the plane carrying the Law & Order posse will mysteriously crash and they will be replaced by the remaining cast of Oz and Big Pussy from the Sopranos.

- Don "King" Milliken

"Never, because it would be as boring as watching curling at the Olympics." What's wrong with you? Curling is the best thing to come out of Canada since....Well I can't think anything better that has come out of Canada. It takes speed, precision, and really cool brooms, so knock some other sport, like figure skating. Figure skating barely counts as a sport. What other "sport" gives equal weight to your skill as it does to your costume design?

Eh? what? the actual match? Whatever!

- Tab

I can't vote for any Law & Order team that doesn't include Mike Logan.

- Matthew J.D. Moir

I don't watch Law and Order, but just knowing that someone has the sense to put the Ramseys on trial gives me enough hope for our justice system. Too bad it's only Grudge(tm)

- Morbid-Harbinger of Doom, Apprentence to the Grim Reaper and arch nemesis of Fluffy(tm)

The whole "This is whose guilty" thing, is just another of your VR Pranks... ADMIT IT!!! That was so fake even I could see through it. Ummmm... Please don't discount my vote, or post rude things about me because I saw through it...

- Nobody

We won't. That page was just punishment for people that haven't visited our Fun Stuff section. -Eds

Shame on you. Anyone that trivializes the murder of children is not even worthy of contempt. You should be deeply ashamed of yourselves and shunned by all decent people. And don't even try and hide behind the sacred shield of satire or snivel about National Enquiresque pop culture phenomenon. Once again I say shame on you. I shall of course rejoin the fray next week.

- The Flying Lizard

The Ramsey's Vs Law & Order, this is sick, this is why the world is going down in a spiral of depravity and mass chaos, it's stunts like this that show how low we can... Hey this site has Willie E Coyote, cool, he was always so misguided and misrepresented, the poor bastard.

- Shaun The Other White Meat

For those of you just getting in from your auto-lobotomy class

Whatever happened to just sending a couple of black midgets into an alley with brass knuckles, and not letting them come out until one of them was dead? Has "Grudge Match" lost they're true "moral value" here? We all fell in love with the idea of celebrity's KILLING each other. So please tell me...... WHAT'S UP WITH THIS CRAP?? WE (the people) want death and destuction. MORE violence and actual death.

- Darth Jared

Anyone that fell in love with just the idea of celebrities killing each other didn't do it here. Firstly, from our very early days, Grudge Match has never been about just violence and death. After all, our second match involved a BOARD GAME. Sure, violence is fun, but it can get repetitive and unchallenging. So we throw in curve balls to keep things interesting. That is what separates us from our emulators, and what helps to define Grudge Match as Grudge Match. To deny non-violent matches out of hand is to deny such classic WWWF events as Yeltsin v. Kennedy, Taylor v. Cunninghams, and Gump v. Rainman.

Secondly... celebrities? That one is really out of left field. WWWF has never been about "celebrities". It's been about characters. So you won't see Mel Gibson, but you will see Braveheart, Mad Max, Martin Riggs and Maverick. Sure, the occassional celebrity does sneak through, but those are the exceptions as opposed to the rule, and it usually only happens if the celebrity is a "character" in his or her own right (e.g. Dennis Rodman, Michael Jackson, Roseanne).

Anyone looking for "celebrity's KILLING each other" week after week is simply in the wrong place. May we suggest MTV's Celebrity Deathmatch or FOX's Celebrity Boxing.

- The Management


This case doesn't need Law & Order, it needs Judge Dredd.

- Thrillhouse -Special Victims Unit

If you liked this match, check out these other past matches:

OJ Simpson on The People's Court
Kenneth Starr v. Bill Clinton
(on Judge Judy)
More Legal Grudge Matches

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Next Match: As time goes by
ETA: Monday, March 11th, 2002

© 2002, Dragon Hamster Productions, LLC