A band of knights crests a grassy ridge. Their armor clanks as they skip along, with lackeys following close behind clapping coconut shells together. Soon the sounds of a quarrel can be heard.
"But my liege, how was I to know that was not the true Holy Grail?"
"Made of plastic, Sir Bedivere? With a Medieval Times logo?" King Arthur tosses it aside, beaning his squire Patsy. "Now we must start our quest all over again."
There is a sudden rumble all around them. The ground cracks, and flame rises from the crevice. As fast as it takes brave Sir Robin to soil his armor, a robed figure with a long white beard emerges.
"Merlin!" Arthur exclaims. "At last, you have returned to aid us in our blessed quest!"
"Who, me? No, I'm just practicing my dramatic entrances. I'm headlining in Las Vegas starting next week; taking over for Siegfried and Roy. But don't worry, Arthur my boy, I won't leave you without a wizard to aid you."
"Not Tim the Enchanter again?" Lancelot says.
"Of course not. You're here, aren't you? Work it out." Lancelot scratches his head, but Merlin pays no mind. "No, I've called in some favors with a couple of distant cousins of mine, all the way from Hogwarts and Middle-Earth. Pick whichever one you like, but only one. They don't get on well together. And now, I'm off to Camelot. The one in Vegas, that is."
Another flash, and Merlin is gone. In his place are two other elderly men in flowing robes and long white beards.
"Well, I certainly see the family resemblance," says Sir Galahad. "But how shall we pick which one shall join us?"
Sir Bedivere pipes up. "Well, if we were to place them in a giant scale, each with a duck ..."
King Arthur smites Bedivere with the hilt of Excalibur. "There is but one fit way to make this judgment in Dark Ages England: the trial by combat! The winner shall lead our quest. So says Arthur, King of the Britons!"
So, Steve, which wise, wizened, wonderful wizard will whip which?
died on October 25 after a bout with Hodgkin's Disease. As a token of respect
to this fine actor, our commentators dedicate this match to his memory,
and won't make cheap jokes at his expense. (Now that's a REAL tribute.)
STEVE: Although both of these wizards are legendary in their own worlds, Dumbledore will clearly be the victor in this battle. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, he is the most famed & powerful wizard in a whole land of wizards. When you're pretty much the only fish in the pond, like Gandalf, anything might seem impressive to the regular Joes. (Case in point: The aforementioned "Tim".) But in a world of wizards, being proclaimed the head honcho is truly saying something. He's the big fish, the alpha male. Everyone watches out for Dumbledore.
Second, judging by his actions, Dumbledore is obviously into some pretty big stuff, which we can really only guess at. Let it suffice to say that when the evilest, nastiest, most powerful wizard (who shall not be named) his world has ever seen is sneaking around Hogwarts, Dumbledore seems busy elsewhere with "important" matters. If he-who-shall-not-be-named is not even worthy of any of Dumbledore's attention, then obviously Dumbledore's power is immense indeed.
Now while Dumbledore is busy with his truly important matters, where is Gandalf? He's busy with his "important" tasks, such as lighting off fireworks for hobbits, or blowing animated smoke rings with his pipe. Sure, he can manage to get his withered old self out of his easy chair once in a while, but even then he's pretty useless. For example, he pays his old master Saruman a visit, and shows his inadequacy twice: First, he doesn't even recognize Saruman's obvious evil transformation. Second, he proceeds to get thoroughly whipped. These feats don't exactly inspire confidence in him.
Really, I can't help but think that perhaps Gandalf would be more of an opponent if he attended Hogwarts himself.
SHANE: Sorry, but Gandalf declines your offer, as he's the one who will be schooling Dumbledore.
First, do you really believe that the most powerful wizard in the world would be rewarded by being made a school headmaster? Does that title really scream "alpha male"? To me, it screams "superannuated duffer of marginal competence getting kicked upstairs." Yes, all the other wizards like him, so they give him a cushy job without much real power. It's obvious that Mrs. McGonagall wields all the disciplinary power at Hogwarts. As for never noticing the encroachments of Lord You-Know-Who, that's not a sign of disdainful strength, it's a sign of cluelessness. If he's such a great wizard, why can't he tell he's about to eat an earwax-flavored jelly bean - and then why doesn't he spit it out? Cluelessness.
Compare that to Gandalf, who moves in a world of ancient and terrible powers, and is equal to them all. Sure, Saruman beat him at first, but villains always prosper at first. Gandalf ends up laying him low in humiliating fashion, which I won't give away for people who haven't read the book or seen the second movie. (Hint: Al Gore would be proud.) Then there's the Balrog: a hundred-foot fiery demon with horns bigger than your car, and Gandalf dispatches it like it was Wile E. Coyote. Sure, it drags Gandalf into a bottomless pit in its death throes, but he just comes back stronger, more powerful, even younger-looking! (Oops, sorry. Spoiler above.) When you can turn horrible doom into your own personal trainer, that is power.
Dumbledore will be lucky not to get cast into an active volcano once this brief fight is over.
STEVE: Oooh, I'm so scared of Balrog. The best this so-called demon can muster is a whip, and he hangs out with smelly goblins in a cave. Honestly, I'm not really impressed. Sure he's big and all, but we all know how that particular quality leads to one's downfall (Goliath, etc.) It was inevitable he had to lose. Good ol' Tim the Enchanter could have handled him. Really, Harry Potter himself has handled tougher things than Balrog, and he's just a kid. A kid at wizard school where Dumbledore is boss. You do the math.
Really, Gandalf only succeeds because he gets tremendously lucky once in a while. Not due to any skill as far as I can tell. Saved by eagles from atop a burning tree at the last minute (The Hobbit). Nearly done in by three lowly trolls. Lucky, yes. Great wizard? No. Besides that, he wears white after Labor Day. Tsk tsk.
It's clear that Dumbledore would make quick work of Gandalf. For that matter, I'd pick just about any wizard over Gandalf. Tim, Merlin, Allanon, The Wicked Witch of the West, hell, even that geeky boy wizard wanna-be from the old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon. And that ain't saying much.
SHANE: Bringing up the best-forgotten D&D cartoon won't win you this geek-off, Steve, not when you make such fundamental errors elsewhere. First, they're smelly orcs, not smelly goblins. Second, Gandalf wore grey: hence the title Gandalf the Grey. (Duh.) Third, Middle-Earth is pre-industrial, hence not unionized, meaning it doesn't have a Labor Day.
Also, it's not luck when Gandalf gets saved by eagles. It happened again in LOTR, and in the movie we see that he communicates with a butterfly to summon the eagle. That implies a profound communion with the animal kingdom, meaning he's got a lot of weapons to use against Dumbledore. Imagine swarms of ants up the robe, dive-bombing swallows, files of ravening chipmunks, and finally a couple billion gnats to carry Dumbledore away in a ludicrous scene perfectly suited to the onlooking Monty Python troupe.
All this is assuming that Gandalf doesn't distract Dumbledore completely from the contest by giving him his heart's fondest wish, as he admitted to young Harry. That's right: a new pair of socks. As Dumbledore dodders away in blissfully undemanding satisfaction, Gandalf can get to work leading this new quest. "One grail to rule them all", or something like that.
Thanks to the many people that suggested this match.
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I was about to go into Geek-Off Mode (TM) by pointing out the inaccuracies surrounding the debate on Gandalf's wardrobe, when I was subsumed by Sneaky Lawyer Mode (TM - on pain of multiple lawsuits). The challenge is clearly stated to be between Dumbledore and Gandalf the GREY. When Gandalf reappears in The Two Towers (Book III of VI) he makes it clear that he is now Gandalf the WHITE. So we have to judge him on his merits and abilities up to the point where he falls into the chasm -- i.e. before he does some of his more impressive feats, so this is a blow to his campaign.
Then I was struck by Super Pursuit Mode ... no, I mean Medieval Scientific Enlightenment. The battle is occurring in the Monty Python universe, and thus subject to the peculiar natural laws found therein. The match will be decided according to the most surreal and humorous possible result.
Thus the Silly English K-Niggets will intervene. They all experienced the trauma that is English boarding school (except possibly the American illustrator, who died of a heart attack anyway), and likely still wet their beds as a result. They'll be in no mood to be bullied about once more by a stuffy, ancient headmaster. Bedivere will distract Dumbledore with a large wooden peacock, while Galahad and Lancelot knock him over the head with some trout left over from their fish slapping dance. Robin and Arthur will tie him in a bag and throw him into the Gorge of Eternal Peril. But Dumbledore will be cast back onto the path (a path! a path!) because he was unconscious and therefore unable to answer the five questions (three questions). Seems strange, but if you don't answer the questions you have to be catapulted SOMEwhere. His landing knocks the knights down like bowling pins and into the pit themselves. Being conscious, they collaborate and are able to answer the five questions (three questions) leaving a confused Dumbledore and Gandalf on a narrow cliff path wondering what to do. Eventually they get together with the Bridge Keeper from scene 27 and go looking for the three Weird Sisters they keep hearing so much about from MacBeth.
- Joel the Gosarian
Seven little wizards,
Six little wizards,
Five little wizards,
Four little wizards,
Three little wizards,
Two little wizards,
One little wizard,
I checked out IMBD for this one because I've never seen either of these two in anything other than Harry Potter movies and "X-Men". (I found out later, of course, that I was wrong about this.) What I found was quite surprising. Put together, Richard Harris (R.I.P.) and Ian McKellen have enough experience playing leaders of major countries to run any country they like!
So who wins? Dumbledore, and I'll tell you why. First of all, McKellen played Hitler, who was a very very bad man. Secondly, Harris is King Arthur! He's the one who's going to make the decision between Gandalf and himself! Do you think he's going to pick Gandalf? Neither do I.
At the end of this match, Dumbledore will be leading the knights of Camelot (whom he's been in charge of the whole time) to find the Grail, while Gandalf lies on the ground, muttering something about the wizarding duel being fixed.
- Scotty J.-I don't mean to be pushy, but this should get me a Grudgie. I just did more research on this fight than I did in COLLEGE!
CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR THE TWO TOWERS AND THE RETURN OF THE KING
Gotta give this one to Gandalf. As was pointed out, I'll pick the guy who goes out and does over the guy who stays home and bosses the teachers around any day.
Even ignoring this, however, it is clear that Gandalf is the baddest wizard this side of Mordor. True, in Fellowship of the Ring he is defeated by Saruman, this is no more than the traditional beating given by the villain to the hero - remember the three books (and therefore the movies) are really one, just divided up for convinience. As we know, Gandalf comes back and breaks Saruman's staff - lowering him to the point that a sniveling fool like Grima can defeat him. He also stands up to the Mouth of Sauron. What's the worst Dumbledore has put up with? Magic spitballs?
Furthermore, Gandalf is to wizards as Connery is to James Bonds - Connery won better than 2:1 against FOUR copycats (although, and this may border heresy, I think they could have done some interesting things with Lazenby after On Her Majesty's Secret Service), and Gandalf the Grey will fare far better against one doddering old principal.
Has anyone ever SEEN Dumbledore and Gandalf in the same place? Your winner: Albus the Grey...err....Gandalf Dumbledore...uh, ah hell you get it...
- Devin The Mental Hospital Escapee
Dumbeldore is helpless without his little underling, Harry. Sure, he's the head of the school and whatnot. But think back to your school. The principal was in charge, but did he really do anything? Same with Dumbledore. He has Harry to do all of his dirty work- Taking out Voldemort, trolls, various forms of evil, etc. Dunbledore's only talent is dispensing with some sage advice.
Gandalf can actually battle the forces of evil without using a 12- year-old AND has sager advice.
That, and Dumbeldore has a slight disadvantage, seeing as he's kind of dead.
- The Blue ONe
Woa, that was an amazing last-ditch attempt to win the debate by Shane. I'm very sorry that Steve didn't get a chance to respond; I'll help him out and respond for him.
1) In Tolkien, orcs and goblins are the same thing.
Yes, Gandalf will probably win due to all the Tolkien fans out there. But Dumbledore is the better wizard.
- Thought Police
As a confirmed Lord Of The Rings Nerd(tm), I could lapse into a discussion about how great Gandalf is, using all kinds of weird words that nobody could understand (except other confirmed Lord Of The Rings Nerds(tm), who don't need me to convince them). But I won't, because I'm just such a nice guy.
But let's compare their accomplishments to date. Not movie accomplishments, because they suck. No, I've read the Harry Potter books and memorized the Lord of the Rings. Let's do this by the text.
And if you haven't read the books, page down a few times might be good about now.
Gandalf wins, hands (and staves) down.
- Benjamin Mithrandir...I mean, Massey
Gandalf and Dumbledore. This is one for the history books. We're talking great pillars of wisdom and age here. You just look at the guy and realize you stand in the aura of greatness, bow down! Both these men carry huge reputations.
But therein lies the problem. Think about it. We see Gandalf save the butts of LOTR's heroes again and again. The dude even falls to what surely most be a most painful end in Fellowship but comes BACK to make sure the heroes don't screw up AGAIN. He's always there when they need him most, giving encouragement, fighting battles, casting spells. Without him Middle Earth would have been lost for sure. Gandalf the Grey proves he's worth his reputation time and again.
Now take a look at Dumbledore. Seems like he's always doing good AFTER it happened. Sure he gave Hagrid a job at Hogwarts, but he didn't do anything about Hagrid being tossed out of school and his wand broken. He friggin' leaves the school in Sorcerer's Stone when he KNEW Volde..er, You-know-who is in the forest and the stone itself was within Hogwarts. Sure he gave Harry a home, but if he could have killed ole' Volde (as they say he could) why didn't he do it BEFORE Volde killed Harry's parents? And on top of that, why did he give Harry to his horrible aunt and uncle? I mean, come on, that was worse than Obi-Wan giving Luke to Owen!! This old dude does nothing to warrant his reputation. Shows up afterwards and takes all the credit. We don't even see him teaching any classes! Four books now and all this guy does is show up at the end to say a few words.
If I was facing down a bad bunch of orcs and an evil rogue wizard, I want Gandalf the Grey on my side.
Hmmmm...the most often mimiced wizard in the history of fantasy literature OR some guy whose name begins with "Dumb-". Really, it's like you guys just aren't even trying anymore.
- Cardinal Fang
Simple logic. All characters in this match are British.
The teaser for this match is "poof".
Remember what "poof" means in British slang.
Gandalf is played by Ian McKellan, whose, erm... preferences are not something he is ashamed about.
Obviously, the teaser has just named the winner.
- Oxymoron ("Mistake me not for a maven of dumb jokes, Iron Fist!")
Ok, we're looking at the land of Monty Python, a place with its own set of laws, like rabbits capable of flight and head severing and the French being able to repel the English by launching livestock at them. In a place like this, you either fit in or you get slapped with a fish.
Gandalf: One moment you think he's dead, then he's back - He could easily be the old man (I'm not dead! I feel fine, I feel happyyy...) or he could be the man the witch turned into a newt (I got better). Adaptability is here.
Dumbledore: He runs a bizarre school where the students compete for the house cup and they play a bizarre game called quidditch. This reminded me of Monty Python and the Meaning of Life, during the episode of Sexual Education through the point where the boys play against the masters, one of the all time greatest Monty Python sketches. They have stairs in the school that do whatever they want, but one of the most important things of all, one of the ghosts of the school is from the Python troop! Given that an exception is made for Harry to play quidditch, it is likely that Dumbledore would use every advantage he had, something the Python boys would applaud.
Let's face it, it's for Gandalf's own good. If he were to search for the Holy Grail with Arthur and the gang, he'd eventually be so boring that they'd have to trap him in the Castle Anthrax to liven him up. Dumbledore would probably suggest forgetting the grail just to go to the Castle Anthrax. I ask you, which would you rather see?
I cannot decide one over the other, for the very simple reason that, if you ignore the movies(none of which actually do any justice to the charactors)then you will spot something very fundamental.
YOU NEVER SEE DUMBLEDORE OR GANDALF TOGETHER!
No, consider, after all, Dr. Who is in fact Merlin (you didn't know that? Bloody hell, where were you when the telly was good?) and at the end of Lord of the Rings, Gandalf sails away in a ship. How does one arrive at Hogwarts for the first time? By water. Could it be that he had found new employment elsewhere? As perhaps a teacher at Hogwarts?
Ah, I hear you cry, but then how can they both appear at the same time to assist King Arthur?
Well, read the above about Merlin/Dr. Who and all will be revealed.
- Ss'hLeer da dragon
Gandalf wields the longest, gnarliest wizard's staff I've ever seen. Sounds like overcompensation to me. The dinky little wand Dumbledore wields speaks of a wizard truly secure in his magic, as well as his manhood. Confidence beats compensation any day of the week.
- Don "King" Milliken
I'm sorry, but if Dumbledore was a member of the Fellowship of the Ring, The Lord of the Rings would have been about 12 pages long:
- Mike Leung
Just read the names.. Gandalf.. Dumbdoor?!?.. Gandalf..
Bumblefloor? Stumblemore? Humblewhore? Rumblesore?
Dumbo'sDrawers? Yeah, I got my butt kicked by....
the Great Wizard Mumble-BORING..
- Jonny P Kash
Please. Hasn't anyone noticed that Dumbledore never actually does anything? I picture the exchange something like this:
Dumlbedore: Could you let me get my wand? I seem to have left it over there.
- the pulsating brain
Curse you, you foul little miscreants! What kind of sorry setup is this? You don't put two wizards in a box and try to make them fight! It doesn't work that way, it's not like the bugs you tormented when you were kids.
Wizards are perfectly capable of getting into lethal disagreements on their own, rigging a match was a grand mistake.
Quoth the mighty Mr. T, "I pity the crazy-*** fool who tries to butt into wizards' business!"
My condolences to the loved ones of the soon-to-be-former commentators, hate mail containing curses, hexes, and live manticores always creates such gruesome results.
- Eric Schori
I'll keep this simple and phallic:
Gandalf's staff is a HELL of a lot bigger than Dumbledore's wand.
- Sigmund Freud
Hey, if we are going to have a geek-off, we have to rely on perhaps the most enjoyably geeky thing around: John Kovalic's Dork Tower. When the dorks played through an RPG rendition of "The Lord of the Rings," they discovered that Gandalf's best use was either as a shield or as a battering ram.
Now, I don't know much about Harry Potter (having never read the books), I do know that nobody ever talked about hurling Dumbledore through barriers to break them down. Thus, in the arena of ultimate dorkiness, it is clear that Gandalf is really useless.
- 32_Footsteps, the Eve of Destruction
From what I've seen of wizard battles, there's one factor that determines a true winner. It's not experience. It's not discipline. It's not natural talent, allies, or foes. It's not placement, energy, preparation, or knowledge.
It's who has the bigger stick.
Nothing else comes CLOSE to the stick factor. If you look at the wizards' respective movies, you can see it holds true. Gandalf got his butt handed to him by Saruman. Why? Saruman has a BIGGER STICK. It's also POINTY, so he gets extra points.
Harry Potter gets beaten down by Tom Marvolo Riddle for a long while. Why? Because Riddle took his stick away! The only way Harry TRIUMPHED over Voldemort was that he pulled something out of a hat. What did he grab at the last second? That's right, A BIG, SHINY, POINTY STICK! How long was it? 2.5, 3 feet? Compared to a WAND, which is only a couple inches long...Tom didn't stand a chance!
Gandalf got a new SHINY, 6-FOOT, MAGICAL STICK OF WHOOPASS.
Looking at their respective sticks, the only way Dumbledore can win this match is if he can find the stick that's stuck up Snape's...erm...Dumbledore can't win this match.
- The Mad Josher
Things that have, in movies, kicked Richard Harris' ass: Shamu, a cook with an arrow, Smilla, Little Bill Dagget, Joaquin "I'm vexed" Phoenix, and some cows.
Things that have, in movies, kicked Ian McKellen's ass: Capt. Picard, mustard gas/stroke, Henry VII and a big flippin' army, a drag-king cowboy...and...yeah, that's about it.
Look, Harris was a good actor and all, but he had worse sense of taste than a noseless, tongue-less dog. With the flu. And on top of that, he'd get his ass handed to him in said crappy movies. If you're gonna be in crappy movies, you should at least win in the end.
- Chantilly the Chartreuse!
Okay, this all comes down to one thing - beards.
Why beards? you ask- because all wizards have beards. Therefore, it is where they hide their power.
Gandalf specialises in fire.
Gandalf wins, Dumbledore's beard is singed badly.
The two mages square off for battle, knowing full well that only one may go on to lead Arthur and his most noble knights on their quest. Gandalf raises his staff high, muttering an incantation. Suddenly, what should manifest itself from the head of his staff but...
A fireball? A lightning bolt? A +3 Ray of Frost (TM c/o D&D 3rd Ed.)?
No. Rather, a simple ray of red light with the distinct outline of a panther's head in the center. Accompanying it, as if on cue, comes a bloodcurdling cry from across the horizon:
"THUNDER! THUNDER! THUNDERCATS, HOOOOOOO!"
Instantly, Liono, Panthro, Tigra, and the rest spring on the scene and proceed to tear Dumbledore asunder. The cloven halves of the former head of Hogwarts fall to the ground as Sir Robin proceeds to soil his armor a second time. Gandalf winks to the party and proceeds to lead them on their way.
So, how did Gandalf manage to summon this band of Thunderians?
Well, if you recall, one of the first (and still the best) animated version of "The Hobbit" was produced by Rankin-Bass Studios, the SAME animation company that produced the Thundercats cartoon. That's right, Gandalf has some old friends from around the office water cooler, ready to help him in a pinch.
Besides, they're doubtlessly still pissed about losing to He-Man and company by TWO FRICKIN' VOTES.
now, last time I watched MP&THG, they were on a quest. What they really need is a wizard who is skilled in quests. And what greater quest is there than the destruction of all evil? They don't need a great teacher of magic; they need a down and dirty questorian, which Gandalf is.
On a side note: Please don't ever do a LotR vs. SW match. I like what's left of my sanity, thank you.
- 005, International Nerd of Mystery
Eh. Either way some stumpy brown haired kid's gonna be crying into his milk and cookies...
- KoD (not the fish)
Remember wiseguys(TM), just because I voted for Gandalf doesn't mean he'll win, but I'll list my reasons why.
Like many millions of Americans, I cannot do funky special effects with my instincts. Whatever talents I have involves my brain and my hands, not my "chi" or "mana" or "mutant genes." In short, I am a Muggle (TM by Rowling). Y'know, an 0-level NPC(TM by TSR), a Regular Joe (Public Domain), an Everyman (TM).
In the Harry Potter series, Most Muggles depicted as ignorant, bigoted, selfish cariatures, which is a mean stereotype in my opinion. I will never forget the bus driver's negative remark regarding Muggles in The Prisoner of Azkaban(sp). How rude! Well EX-CUSSSE ME for not having a sixth sense!
In the Rings Trilogy, by contrast, Muggles, or in this case Hobbits (Let's face it, the one character race less grand than humans!), are treated with respect. The Hobbits, those Muggle-like creatures with no special abilities, get to become part of the Fellowship!
I'm rooting for the Home Team here. Or in this case, the patron of the Home Team - Gandalf the Grey.
- Katrover Swatroad
Gandalf and Dumbledore take one look at this troupe of fools and immediately start fighting over who gets stuck with them.
So who *does* end up babysitting? Dumbledore, if he can recover from getting smeared across several acres of English countryside. The fight lasts all of thirty seconds, each one of which seems very, very long to Headmaster Albus.
Why? Because Gandalf is a minor *god*. A minor *god*. Make no mistake, Albus Dumbledore is a mighty wizard. But minor god trumps major wizard every time.
Want me to break it down? Okay.
Hand-to-hand: Dumbledore is an old man with a wand. Gandalf *looks* old, but he's actually eternal. After all, he's a minor god. When the combat starts, he picks up his staff and starts kicking ass beside the young bucks he travels with. Oh, wait. Excuse me. He uses the staff in *one* hand. He has GLAMDRING in the other.
If Gandalf gets close, the fight is already over. Dumbledore probably knows this. He wants to keep Gandalf at a distance, so that means magic.
Now, we have no idea of the extent of either wizard's destructive power. We can probably assume that Gandalf's is greater, because he's a MINOR GOD. On the other hand, sheer force probably never comes into play. We've seen how wizards fight in both worlds, and Gandalf has the Quick Draw advantage here. While Dumbledore is busy pointing his wand and shouting his magic words, Gandalf swings his staff and knocks him on his ass from across the field.
Just to cap it off, let's take a look at past opponents:
Dumbledore: Voldemort. That's it. Just the Sauron wannabe. Move along. Nothing more to see here.
Gandalf: Saruman (lost the first round, but comes back and wins with a TKO), the Balrog, all nine Ringwraiths (okay, he was tag-teaming with Elrond on this one), DEATH
Gandalf returns to Middle Earth, eager to deal with someone more intelligent--like trolls--while Dumbledore remains, cleaning Sir Robin's armor and trying to keep the rest of them from hurting themselves.
First off, those who can't do, teach!
So Gandalf would destroy Dumbledore without even breaking a sweat, except for the (un)timely appearance of the most powerful wizard in existence. Yes, that's right...Rincewind!
However his first response on seeing a band of armed knights, even ones like Sir Bedivere, would be to run. Direction doesn't matter just speed. And since he is always closely followed by his luggage (THE luggage), most of the knights and the one remaining wizard would either be swallowed or trampled by hundreds of tiny legs. Technically though Gandalf still wins.
One final thought: the only reason Gandalf lost the fight with Saruman is because Saruman was being played by Christopher Lee AKA Darth Tyranus & Sir Lucas De Beau Manoir (Grand Master of the Holy Order of the Knights Templar). This is the man who trashed Obi-Wan AND Anakin AND Yoda. It is a testament to Gandalf's magical prowess that he even survived the fight.
- Aux. Priest
Steve, when you decided to back Dumbledore I think you missed two very crucial points. First there is the old adage:
"If you can't do, teach, if you can't teach, administrate."
I think your man fits this perfectly. If he was great and mighty he would be out doing something instead of moldering away at some children's school in England. Not only is he only an administrator, it's not even a school for the upper forms. He administrates little kids! He obviously doesn't get paid very well if he can't even afford new socks.
Second, and most important, let's look at the mission. To retrieve
the Holy Grail(c). What makes it holy, why it comes from God of
course. To quote Gandalf when someone asked him his name, "...in
the west I was Olorin, but that is forgotten.". And who is
Olorin? He was the wisest of the Maiar, the angels of Middle
Earth. Now who would be better acquainted with the quest for the
Grail(c) than an angel? Gandalf has probably already been training for
this while Dumbledore was at his junior academy wishing for a
new pair of socks.
God "*"(I said imagine, I'm not going to tell you what He said)
Gandalf might not even have to fight, he could just tell Dumbledore , "You're good, I'm an angel, go away." Anyone who thinks Dumbledore has a chance has obviously been smoking something more interesting than you'll find in Gandalf's pipe.
- Thomas the Kingmaker
Hogwarts, Mount Doom,
Both parties sense impending gloom
Old man; Wise guy
People follow though they don't know why
They seek wisdom just as fast as they can,
'Cause everyone's crazy 'bout a spell-bound man
Baggins. Potter, too.
8 bucks; long wait
- Mark Wentz - Or should I have just said these blokes look like the guys from ZZ Top?
Gandalf has a cooler hat. The guy with the cool hat always wins. Just look at Robert Vaughn.
- Johnny Psycho and the Industrial Mayonnaise band
For goodness sake, this is so one-sided in Dumbledore's favour (British spelling preferred)that it isn't even funny. What makes you think Dumbledore will stick to just using his staff? He has a friggin' magic spell for _everything_, and he's _always_ right, because he isn't a character -- he's a plot device.
If Harry needs to travel back in time, Dumbledore has a time travel potion. If he needs anything, Dumbledore has a magic item for it. Dumbledore always knows who's good and who's on the Dark Side, even when nobody else knows. If two rival warring clans of peanut-butter lions who breathe lightning attacked Hogwart's, well gosh darn it! Dumbledore just happens to have a wand that only works on peanut-butter lions who breathe lightning, and he knows which clan to use it on. Harry could just goof off in his dorm all year and Dumbledore would solve everything.
And Gandalf -- he actually has restrictions to his power. He's sometimes too late, and he doesn't have a spell that does exactly what needs to be done every time. Poor Gandalf has to use his brains instead of just pulling the perfect solution out of his hat. And if he sticks to his staff, he's a goner. Gandalf, as an actual character with depth, stands no chance against a living gimmick used to get writers out of jams.
- Tzinztuntzan (formerly le schmuck)
The real winners are the little kids at these guy's family reunions.
All I can say is that the Wizard of Oz is gonna be pissed.
- Kommandant Beowulf
See, here's the thing: I'm an avid fan of both the Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. I know that Gandalf has held his own with the forces of evil, fighting the Balrog while plummeting to certain death, then engaging in a final battle that was mistaken by nearby villagers to be a thunderstorm of epic proportions, and returned stronger than ever; on the other hand, Dumbledore himself has been foreshadowed to be a severe thaumaturgical badass himself, frightening the Sauron of the Potterverse, Voldemort. However, this is where my opinion is swayed.
See, if I want to know how much of a chance Gandalf stands, I can go to my bookshelf and check my copy of LOTR, and see him in action. Dumbledore's potential, by comparison, is unrealized. You may see him get a little mad at times, but by and large, he's just some happy-go-lucky school professor who enjoys socks and pulling the strings of Harry's life. He allows his cronies, some more wizened characters and a trio of preteens, to solve his problems for him while he...what the hell does he do anyway?
Do I sound bitter? I wonder why? Well, gee, maybe it's because Rowling turned down Steven Spielberg and his idea of Haley Joel Osmant playing Harry because she insisted on a completely British cast. Maybe it's because the casting rejected Robin Williams for the same reason. Maybeit's because they teased me with having John Cleese in the cast, only to have him float for ten seconds and say the crappiest lines. But maybe, just maybe it's because I've been waiting for two FRIGGIN' years for Rowling to get off her pasty British fanny and get the 5th Harry Potter published! That's my breaking point! You have pushed my limits too far and for too long, J.K!! Gandalf fries Dumbledore!
- Tracer - Not all who wander are lost, but I sure as hell am
Oh come on. Even He Who Shall Not Be Named, using fouler arts than Dumbledore would ever dare to dick around with, is far short of achieving immortality. Gandalf was immortal before he even got killed and resurrected, and so are his main opponents. He is a Servant of the Secret Fire. Dumbledore is a Servant of the School Board. Gandalf has Many Names. Dumbledore doesn't. Those who have Many Names always have more to them than meets the eye.
Plus, Gandalf is gay as a picnic basket, while Dumbledore only pretends to be in order to make English public school types feel at home. Real gay beats faux gay every time.
Dumbledore gets laughs by saying silly non sequiturs. Gandalf gets laughs by ranting "There is no butter in hell!", leaving his audience quivering in terror. It's pretty clear who is the forceful personality here.
- the wannabe U*x wizard
This appears to me to be a very close match. However, there's one move Gandalf could pull off that would be sure to swing things his way- The Babe Factor. Due to the uniform problem at Hogwarts (hard to tell what anyone looks like under those robes) Dumbledore is probably looking for some female companionship past McGonagall. And who does Gandalf happen to know? The ultimate babe in Middle-Earth. Galadriel is hot enough to turn any old man's head. Dumbledore will be so busy watching her, he'll fail to notice Gandalf's fire spell incinerating the back of his skull. Chalk up another victory for Gandalf.
- The Masked Cow
As names mean a great deal in magic, I'm going to have to go with Gandalf here, entirely because his full name is Gandalf Stormcrow. Compare that to Albus Dumbledore, whose name means "White Bumblebee." (Albus is "white" in Latin, Dumbledore is Middle English for "bumblebee.") A Stormcrow could easily beat the stuffing out of a bug.
The WWWF judges have set up the contest in their usual venue: one of the lesser conference rooms of the local Marriott. It was all they could afford. Basically it's three chairs on one side of a couple of tables facing the door to the lobby.
"I don't know? Where ARE they?" says one judge.
Dumbledore wanders in. He's wearing a rugby shirt, a striped tie in an eccentric knot, a flannel bathrobe, and flannel slippers.
"--IN SHORT, THERE'S SIMPLY NOT, A MORE CONGENITAL SOT--" he mumbles. He reeks of cheap bourbon. Ah, he's waving a bottle of it around, that explains the bourbon stains on the tie and the streaks of vomit on his slippers. It's a wonder he still has any traction at all.
"THIS is Dumbledore?" says the first judge. "I expected an older man." He consults his clipboard.
*BLLLLLAAAAAAUGGGHHH* Dumbledore vomits copiously all over the tables and the judges. "I believe that's my gun," he then says to the wall, before collapsing in the corner onto several empty cardboard boxes.
"I think we can eliminate Dumbledore," the first judge says, sponging
the front of his clothes off. "Now then . . . Gandalf--"
"If you like poppers, I've got some up in my room!" Gandalf says.
The judges sigh and begin filling out their ballots. As usual, "both maimed and killed." It's the only fair solution.
I tried reading the Hobitt once. A month later I awoke from the coma and tried again. That time I was out for a semester. I'm assuming, that since Gandalf hails from that awful book, all he has to do is open his mouth and Dumbledore will become so bored that he dies (he's not as young and strong as I), and Professor McGonagall inherits the school.
First of all, haven't you all heard the phase, "you can strike me down, and I will become more powerful"? That's what's going on with Gandalf. The dark side Saruman whips his butt, but he comes back from that and takes out the Balrog. The Balrog takes him down with him, but from what I've heard, he comes back faster, stronger, and that much more of a bad mother-fucker to mess with. Plus, chances are that for the fight here, Gandalf might be flying a little too high to feel the pain. Why?? Because he likes to go smoke weed man, he's a stone cold stoner! Anybody can blow a smoke ring like Biggo Baggins, but Gandalf blows out a freakin' dawg-gone three mast ship and puts it right thru the ring. That's skillz my man!! Hell, I bet right before the match-up here, Galdalf pulled out his blunt-saber, smoked some of his finest home grown, and then put on some Pink Floyd to get himself into the zone for this wizards duel. The song you know he's going to be jammin' to? "Teacher Leave Those Kids Alone". Think about it man. Dumbledore is like the superintendent of Hogwarts. He's got all those kids there under his control. So, he's obviously is the Teacher who won't leave the children alone. (No, I'm not going to insert a *Harry Potter and the Knockwurst of Molestation* joke here. Besides, no need to sink to that level here right???) Hell, there is only teacher at all that I can think of that has gotten a lot of respect for is Obi-Wan Kenobi. I suspect that Gandalf himself has studied under the great Jedi master and learned the teachings of Get Butt Whoop And Then Take Out The Bastard.
- BIGMRG74 * all in all you're just another brick in the wall.*
No no no! There is a much simpler way! Use the strange old man from scene 42!
Old Man: What is your name?
Gandalf: Gandalf the Grey of Middle-Earth!
Old Man: What is your quest?
Gandalf: To destroy the One Ring and preserve Middle-Earth!
Old Man: What happens to you in the end of your book series?
Gandalf: I help destroy all the forces of evil and go down in history.
Old Man: All right, next!
Old Man: What is your name?
Dumbledore: Albus Dumbledore, Headmaster of Hogwarts!
Old Man: What is your quest?
Dumbledore: Um, to provide guidance and comic relief to an annoying teenage prima donna...
Old Man: What happens to you at the end of your book series?
Dumbledore: Well- I don't know that because- AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
Arthur: Right, that decides that. Gandalf, old boy, have you a pair of coconuts?
- Peter "Blue, no YellOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!" Tutham
At first, I thought Dumbledore was a bit out of his league here, but then I realized something. This is a contest to see who will help find the Holy Grail, right? Well, who is better qualified for finding interesting and plot-point-worthy magical artifacts than Dumbledore? He got his hands on the Mirror of Erised, the Sor... I mean, PHILOSOPHER'S Stone (no, I'm not British, I just think "Sorceror's Stone" was a copout), Potter Sr.'s old Invisibility Cloak, the Sword of Gryffindor, the Pensieve, and lord knows what else is tucked away in the corners of Hogwarts. Heck, he's probably got the Grail stashed away in a storage closet or something. The guy has such a habit of having magic items fall into his lap, I can't see how he CAN'T be qualified. This is how I see the match going...
Gandalf: Stand your ground, gentlemen! I will deal with this
impostor, and then we shall away to seek the Holy Grail!
Game, Set, Match for Hogwarts' prestigious head honcho.
- Andy the Anarchist
To decide this match, we need look no further than the contestant's names. What does Dumbledore mean? Bumblebee. That's right, you can get that Q-tip out of your ear, cuz you heard me correctly. Now who was that guy who said, "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee." Oh yeah, it was Muhammad Ali, THE GREATEST FIGHTER EVER. Screw Gandalf, once my man Dumbledore lands a 1-2, Gandalf and his brand of "magic are gonna hit da mat. Most importantly, "Dumbledore" just sounds cooler. Seriously, try saying it 10 times fast. dumbledore dumbledore bumbledore bumblebore bumblepore...crap, now I have to change my vote.
- Aerodude (Also will respond to "God," "Supreme Deity" or, if in a good mood, "Penultimate Being"
I going to have to go with Dumbledore on this one based on Gandalf's performance in the Fellowship of the Ring. In this film, Gandalf does the following:
Fails to notice a major artifact sitting right under his nose
- Mark (I heard it from Joe)
Two words: physical condition. The two combatants are pretty even in terms of magical power, which means the match comes down to strength, speed, and stamina. In which case, Gandalf has it all. Even though he's recently celebrated his two thousandth birthday, he's still healthy enough to trek all over Middle-Earth, climb mountains, and go toe-to-toe with the Orcs. Conversely, Dumbledore has never been seen to manage anything better than a slow walk.
- Lt. Kije
I foresee a short fight. Scenario puts 'em at pretty close range. Gandalf can move pretty fast when he wants to, as shown in the two books that aren't movies yet. He also packs a sword.
Gandalf will have Dumbledore's head off by the time he gets his wand out.
And I don't expect even the mightiest Potter-universe wizards could top any abuse Gandalf has survived... Though you may criticize his tactics in the Balrog encounter, the fact that he SURVIVED that encounter puts him right beneath Godzilla on the toughness scale.
In short, even if Gandalf didn't have any offensive magic at his disposal, Dumbledore is toast.
Give him a lightsabre and put him up against Darth Maul if you want a real fight.
- Benito Baggins
This comes down to The John Bull CriteriaTM: Who is More English? The winner will be that wizard with the More English Creator. To Wit:
J. K. Rowling sketched out her storylines in a coffee shop, while unemployed. J. R. R. Tolkein developed his storylines while riding through German anti-aircraft fire, headed for Arnhem with the British 1st Airborne. Nothing more British than engaging in an act of culture under fire. Nothing less English than coffee (as my friend Steve says, "it is most American.")
J. K. Rowling is late to her next deadline, and can't seem to get done with her next book. J. R. R. Tolkein published the Silmarillion after he died! The English always finish what they start, even after death. And they are always on time. I know this because my MGB only starts once in a while, but the dash clock keeps perfect time.
Finally, J. K. Rowling fails the critical initial test. When I was 15 and read the Lord of the Rings, that second middle initial (J. R. R.?) drove me nuts. Everyone I knew had, at best, one middle initial. Then, it seemed like every Englishman I met had at least two middle initials. J. R. R. takes it by an R.
- Dr. Stones
I think this can be decided by the archenemies of the wizards in question. Gandalf's enemy is Saruman, who has raised an army of orcs, wields magic that can cause a blizzard halfway across the world, and weasels his way into power better than both Bushes combined. Dumbledore's enemy is Voldemort, who gets defeated by the power of true love and, later, by a boy who would spend a lot of time with his head in the toilet in most schools in America. Case closed.
- Fish of Death
Gandalf, leading a desperate and deadly band deep into hostile territory, is roughly equivalent to Lee Marvin's "Major John Reisman" in The Dirty Dozen, only without the machine gun.
Dumbledore is closer to Jeffrey Jones' "Dean of Students Ed Rooney" in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, only without the obsessive viciousness.
Pretty easy pick this time out.
- Mr. Silverback- I always cry at movies with hand grenades in them.
As the battle ensues, Arthur considers each wizard's past performances:
1) Sent Bilbo (and crew) on a quest inspired by a map Gandalf found while imprisoned in the Necromancer's dungeon.
2) Sent Frodo (and crew) on a quest and spent most of the book imprisoned in Saruman's tower.
Exerpt from Gandalf's mission statement:
" ... to send this group from peril to peril while I am tortured in the dungeons of various wizards ... ".
1) Built his school in such a manner that every student is in constant danger of being crushed, burnt, or splattered by his/her surroundings.
2) Promotes a sport in which every student is in constant danger of being crushed, burnt, or splattered by his/her peers.
3) Offers his students classes where every student is in constant danger of being crushed, burnt, or splattered by his/her lesson content.
Exerpt from Dumbledore's mission statement:
" ... in hopes that any of my charges who survives the culling process will be able (once fully recovered) to fight the enemy despite having been too busy avoiding my traps to learn anything useful ...
After minimal consideration, Arthur and his men ride off into the distance, leaving the competitors with only the dwindling sound of coconuts for company.
Well just because YOU won't make cheap jokes at Richard Harris' expense, doesn't mean the rest of us can't.
So it's really quite simple...
Albus Dumbledore is dead...
So with Albus and Gandalf splitting the vote, it comes down to what Arthur feels is more important to him... being dead or being gay. And the fact is, King Arthur's life partner David Sherlock is still living, so if he was going to attempt the incredibly difficult journey across the barrier from the Great Beyond in order to meet up with a living being, he'd go visit his life partner first rather than some other gay man.
Therefore, King Arthur will rightly choose his fellow dead parro-- er, I mean dead MAN... as his wizardly travelling companion.
All I can say is that the winner HAS to be the great and powerful Dumbledore.
I mean the man is the headmaster of a school full of pre-pubescent brats with magical powers, and as a teacher I can assure you that goblins, orcs and other such creatures have absolutely nothing on a school full of teenagers and rugrats!
Dumbledore humiliates Gandalf and sends him to detention!
The only reason Dumbledore even exists is because Gandalf paved the way. Ever since him, every wizard has long grey hair and beard, a tall pointed hat, and bushy eyebrows. Gandalf wins by the simple virtue that the original is always better than a cheap knockoff, no matter how witty.
- The Bottom Line
Clearly, since magic is at work, we'll have to use the laws of Movie PhysicsTM!
First of all, we have to apply the Law of Transitive
Next, we have the Axiom of Effective MentoringTM
Gandalf mentors Frodo Baggins, who goes on to confront the greatest
evil his world knows and all his minions and earn the respect
of wise and brave souls throughout the land.
Finally, we have the Law of . . . oh god, I can't go on. It's too easy.
Gandalf decapitates Dumbledore with Glamdring, mounts his head next to the balrog's, and kicks back with a pipe full of Sonoma GoldTM Brand pipe weed.
- Bozo the Clone
There is a very important factor that you are forgetting here. Namely, the troop of Monty Python personage. Who will they be wanting to win, and who will they help? Clearly, the answer is Dumbledore. Why? you ask. Simply, Cockroach Clusters. What the Hell are you talking about? you ask. I'll tell you. One of the numerous food products mentioned in Monty Python's Flying Circus is Cockroach Clusters. Now, this food is ALSO in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. Not only that, but it is the password to Dumbledore's office. Dumbledore probably sponsors the whole Cockroach Cluster thing. Someone probably paid him tons of money for the product placement of putting that as his password. So, clearly the Pythons and Dumbledore have a business contract. Thus, Dumbledore has a vast array of weapons at his disposal: The Holy Hand Grenade, Simpson's Individual Stringettes, etc. And most importantly, Gandalf's big defense is that he can fly away on birds. The Pythons have a gift for dealing with deceased parrots. It stands to reason that they could convince Gandalf that his eagle is still alive, and simply pining for the fjords. Gandalf hops on, and goodbye Gandalf. There we go.
- Matt "Hippo Floss"
Gandalf is the more competent mage of the two of them. That's why Arthur will choose Dumbledore - who could resist the potential for wacky fun?
In honour of the holiday season, I'd like to say Santa Claus, the original ash-bearded magic man, could kick both their asses.
This will be a battle between the 12 year old geeks and the 32 year old geeks. Sadly enough they're probably in the same weight class.
- ex agent
If you liked this match, check out these other past matches:
Next Match: Spoof
If you liked this match, check out these other past matches:
Next Match: Spoof
© 2002, Dragon Hamster Productions, LLC